transmission slipping.......GGGGRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

[BigTruckDrivah]

So I just got my 4.3/auto(cpi) from a 92 blazer into my 89 s10 running good but the tranny seems to be slipping or something. When I first got it running we got a little excited and in a hurry did some crazy burn outs,dogged on it a lil,ect., ect., you know the story, well during all this the tranny started slipping a little bit so I checked the fluid and it wasnt even showing on the stick, DAMN! Ends up it was like 9 quarts low, filled it up and its still slipping. 1,2, and reverse work great, and it will shift once while in drive and overdrive but after that it just slips and wont move. I'm pretty sure the tranny is smoked but thought I'd run it by you guys to see if theres anything I'm missing like maybe some electrical on the tranny not working properly. Oh yea its the older tansmission, I beleive a 700r4 it only has two plugins on it and it came out of a 92 blazer.

[BigTruckDrivah]

and what is the "VSS", doesnt it have something to do with the tranny.

[Sparky2263]

If the TV cable wasn't hooked up/adjusted properly and you were dogging on it, then yes, you probably hurt it. The cable is the only way for throttle input to increase line pressure in the transmission. Without it, major slippage will occur.

And compounding the problem would be the low fluid level.

[BigTruckDrivah]

TV cable is the the "kick down cable" right? Sorry for the dumb questions I'm just trying to figure this thing out. And how do I adjust this cable?

[Hammer Head]

Does the trans fluid smell burnt or look dark (burnt)? I'd say gearin around & runnin w/ that much fluid out I'd be worried about your clutch packs bein smoked.

[Mikz86TA]

First off youre F-ed!
9 quarts low was a bad problem
The VSS is the VehicleSpeedSensor and its just the mechanical to electrical converter for the speedo. The VSS is the plug at the Left side of the tailhousing (2-pin plug)
The 4-pin plug is for the TCC (TorqueConverterClutch) lockup. Any 700R4 after 84 doesnt need it plugged in for correct tranny operation. But the TCC will not work if its not and the wiring isnt correct. But thats the least of your worries.
Here is a basic rundown on how a 700R4/4L60/4L60E works :
1st Gear : 1-2 Clutchpack is engaged
2nd Gear : 1-2 Clutchpack is engaged and the 2-4 Band applied
3rd Gear : 1-2 Clutchpack is engaged, the 3-4 Clutchpack is engaged and the 2-4 Band is released
4th Gear : 1-2 Clutchpack is engaged, the 3-4 Clutchpack is engaged and the 2-4 Band is applied
The 1-2 Clutchpack is also know as just the Forward Clutchpack.
From you description that there is no 3rd or 4th.....your 3-4 Clutchpack is fried. This is easily done on a OEM Clutchpack since thats a weakpoint. The issue is 2 things. One there are 5-6 clutches in the 3-4 pack. Improvements are made and durability in aftermarket sets that have 7,8 or 9 clutches. 8 is the best. 0 is good but only for short use like racing. To get more clutch frictions and steels in the pack, they must make them thinner. Thinner doesnt dissapate heat as well, but makes it grab better. Thats why a 8-pack set is best. The other 3-4 Clutchpack issue is in the valvebody. The release hole for the seperatotr plate isnt large enough and the spring behind the spool valve in the valvebody isnt strong enough to allow for a quicker 3rd to 2nd shift/release. This causes a overlap and wear.
Unfortunately your lack of patience and not following proper checks B4 running it hard has compiled your problems.
The TV cable is used to adjust line pressure as well as tell the tranny throtle position to control the upshift and downshift caracteristics. The TV is not an adjustable part to tune shift points. There is ONE WAY and ONLY one way to properly adjust the TV cable. If your shift points are too high or too low, the Governor is to be used to adjust the shift points. It is also NOT to be used to adjust shift firmness. ValveBody kits do that. You got to understand how an auto works and the induvidual componets B4 you go adjusting stuff blindly.
I can point you to some sites that explain some stuff, but a tranny repair/rebuild manual is a good way to read and learn.

[BigTruckDrivah]

That makes it alot more clear. What trans fluid was in it wasnt burt, brown, nor did it smell bad. Thats why I am asking questions, I'm no transmission man, but yes I did get a little impatient and I am f-ed please dont rub it in,lol. I'm gonna drop the pan today and see what I find, are there any sttraight forward signs that the tranny is smoked that I should be lookin for? Besides that it is slipping. I'm gonna attempt to rebuild it myself since I have access to the tools and proper shop at work so any advice on that would be great.

[BigTruckDrivah]

And how can I tell if the torque converter is bad or not?

[Hammer Head]

If you drop the pan & see metal shavings or pieces of the clutch discs.. that'd be a good indication.

[Mikz86TA]

X2.
If you plan on doing iot yourself, have someone there who has done it B4 to guide you. Get a couple rebuild manuals and make one the ATSG manual. You can buy the ATSG from their online store, download it from there, buy one off e-bay or get one from Superior Transmission Parts.
If you plan on making the tranny stronger, heres a few things to consider.
Upgrade the 3-4 Clutchpack. Use either Alto RedEagle 8pk or the Borg-Warner Hi-Energy 8pk. The kit will come with steels and frictions.
Shift Corrector Kit. These will improve the shift characteristics in a few ways. They update the VBody parts, make the shifts progressively firmer according to throttle, have parts to fix 'known' issues and allow for proper operation. DO NOT get duped into a TCI or B&M 'ShiftKit'. Those will only make it shift hard and end up shortening the tranny life. Trust me, I know. Use either Superior/Fairbanks 700-R4 HP kit or the TransGo kit prepered by Dana @ ProBuilt automatics in Calimesa,Ca.
Get a new Converter. There is only one way to fully drain a converter and I doubt you wil be able to do it at home.
Some places I recommend getting the rebuild kits.
Superior Transmission in Tallahassee / contact Kenner by phone / or http://www.superior-transmission.com/default.htm
ProBuilt Automatics / contact Dana by phone or e-mail / http://www.700r4l60e.com/
PTAC Transmission / http://www.partshp.com/
Performabuilt / contact Frank / http://www.performabuiltautomatics.com/GM/pro-street-series_700r4_4l60e.htm
Each one will have a different opinion on which 3-4 Clutchpack to use and such, but none of them are wrong. Its a matter of preference. Dana @ ProBuilt will gladly talk you through some stuff. He is always on ThirdGen.Org and CamaroZ28.com and helps answer questions alot. They sell full packaged rebuild kits that are quality parts and reasonalbly priced.
A few more things of upgrade interest are a better 2-4 Band, 'SPX the Beast' Sunshell (a commonly broken item...just Google it), Borg-Warner 29-element Sprag (dual cage preferred), and read the ATSG manual for some more 'do it during the rebuild' improvements.
I have a thread here I need to finish on my recent 700R4 rebuild. I have alot of info and a few pics already. Take some time and read what I got there so far.

[BigTruckDrivah]

cool, I really appreciate the info.. Here goes nothing.

[BigTruckDrivah]

:wtf: Alright, I don't get it. I dropped the trans pan found very little metal, and no signs of any kind of clutch. No foul smell in the fluid, and its still red, color doesnt mean much since most of the fluid I added after the tranny started slipping. i dont know much about an auto, is there any other parts on the tranny that can go bad to cause this problem. Once again 1,2,and reverse work perfectly, in drive and overdrive it will shift from 1 to 2 then from 2 up just acts like it is in neutral. Sorry to be a PITA with all the questions I'm just trying to learn. thanks in advance.

[Mikz86TA]

Did you connect and have the TV cable operating properly during the test? The TV controls the 'line rise' pressure of the fluid.

[BigTruckDrivah]

TV cable was conected, didnt adjust it before the test but checked adjustment and it was good during the test. I tried tugging on it to see if it was broken or stuck and it didnt seem to be malfunctioning. Should I spray some B-12 into the valve body while the pan is down? Maybe this will loosen whatever might be stuck. I might add that the truck this drivetrain came out of sat for atleast a year with out being driven due to a bad fuel pump.

[Mikz86TA]

No B12. But read this page. And on the top right is the 2nd and 3rd page. This link will explain all you will ever need to know about the TV operatioon and its 'correct' setting. Visualizing its operation while th pan is off is a good thing. So get some help to push the accelerator down whhttp://www.tvmadeez.com/article/index.phpile you are under the vehicle seeing it operate. Read all 3 pages

[BigTruckDrivah]

well, seems there is more to a TV cable than just the cable. This makes me feel alot better, thanks for the link.

[Mikz86TA]

No problem. Ive heard mixed things about BowtieOverdrives. But this info from them is the best explained TV information Ive ever found.
The spring behind the plunger and the sleeve are the 2 most problematic areas.

[BigTruckDrivah]

Was the same 700r4 used on my 4.3 as the 2.5? How interchangeable are these transmissions? Oh, and I got a wild hair up my a** and decided to look in the old filter of my trans just to see what was in it...........and.........I guess instead of all the peices of tranny going into the pan it all gather in the filter, lol. I pulled the filter apart and there was alot of carbon like small peices in it, very little metal though.

[BigTruckDrivah]

So its positive the trans is DEAD.

[Mikz86TA]

There are just a few differences in the trannys. They have the same splines and bolt-pattern.
But there are some 'strength' internal differences. But your issue was poor startup procedure I am sure of.
The only metal would be particles that get on the magnet at the pan bottom. Floating particles are friction material and aluminum in some cases.
Naturally ther is particles and wear.
My tranny in the TA had literally strips of the Band friction material.
Thats what I just rebuild...fun stuff =)

[BigTruckDrivah]

I wasnt thinking of using the 2.5 tranny in my truck, I just wanted to use it for core exchange purposes. I would rather give the 2.5 tranny for my core so that I can keep my original to get rebuilt later on, kind or have a back up tranny.