throttle plate

[jucket90]

on the 00 s-10 with the 4.3 w there is a little baffle on throttle plate. can that be removed. it dosent look that hard to do. i just want to know if it will cause any problems

[yellow02zq8]

yes, it can easily be removed, it's not known to cause any problems that i have ever been aware of

[LEADFOOT]

Everybody has done that one. No problems. Go for it. Drill out the rivets (with the TB off the motor of course) then put some rivets back in. Or JB weld them or what ever will work, just remember to fill the holes.

[LEADFOOT]

I was looking for this thread to post it up in here for you. Click here for the answer to your question and removal http://www.sicgmtrucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=825

[jucket90]

do i need to get a new gasket once i take it off

[yellow02zq8]

do i need to get a new gasket once i take it off
no, no gasket is needed

[bvr775]

grind it down but do not drill the rivets out of the difusor.leaving holes in you buterfly blade will cause a lean condition. It's better to to buy a new butterfly from CFMtech bacause depending on climate and elvation you live in it cause problems.
I'll try and get a site address up for you. i could have sworn the diffusor mod made it over for the planet. Ask obi, zq8, or max

[Krazny]

I am probably going to do this today, and if I can get the !@#$ camera to work,I'll do a little write up how-to.

I believe you can fill in the holes with JB Weld, rather than buying a replacement.

[yellow02zq8]

the best way to do it yourself is to take the butterfly out entirely, and then cut of or grind down the diffuser, no need to take out rivets or use jb weld

[yellow02zq8]

heres a link from another site on how to do it
http://www.sshotrods.com/performance/gmtruck/fullsize/4.3/tb/

[Krazny]

Doh.
Oh well, I already JB ed the holes shut. . . .

( I left the existing hole open.)

Anything I have to worry about not scratching/marring up besides the inside of the TB?

[Krazny]

Alright,
After finishing it up, and reading the above link, I have come to the conclusion that the above link is a better/easier way to do it. Partially because it lessens the chance of scratching the plate to hell, as I found out. . .(And as such I feel that doing a writeup on the method I used is redundant)

Also learned that a Surefire 6P is the best **** flashlight ever,and that I need several replacement bolts to replace the ones currently in there due to a combonation of rust/previous owner stripping the heads. Oh well, glad it is done.

Just gonna let the JB harden further before I take it out for a test run, but from what little testing I have done since, it seems to breathe a little easier. I think I am going to redo the exhaust/intakes next, probably over spring break, and the EGR restrictor as well.

[jucket90]

i cut that thing out at work today and it made my exhaust louder and gave me noticably more power. in first gear i can beat my friends buick regal off the line. thanks guys

[CountryMud]

i cut that thing out at work today and it made my exhaust louder and gave me noticably more power. in first gear i can beat my friends buick regal off the line. thanks guys
I sincerely hope you are kidding..... If I am not mistaken, the 'baffle' is to smooth out air. But even if I am wrong on that, it didn't make your exhaust louder, and definitally doesn't give more power.. :rolleyes:

Oh, and about **** near any vehicle could beat a buick regal off the line :brick:

Edit - You're 'seat of the pants' dyno needs tuned if you think this give you power.... :screwy:

[Hammer]

on the 00 s-10 with the 4.3 w there is a little baffle on throttle plate. can that be removed. it dosent look that hard to do. i just want to know if it will cause any problems

there has been much discussion about why this item was placed on the throttle blade (the diffusor)

I have not tested this personally, but OBI and I have had discussions about why GM placed it there and through my own logic and discussions the conclusion was that the diffusor is there to prevent a lean condition on the back 4, especially the back 2 cylinders. If you look at the runner lengths and location of the Throttle differences between the front 2 and back 4 cylinders it's obvious to me why the diffuser was installed. As fas as I know, the half removal of the diffusor prevents lean conditions, but full removal will cause lean conditions. Not serious or detrimental, cause i have not heard or seen any damaged parts because of this, but it is worth noting.

Myself, i would never fully remove the diffuser because I believe that it serves a valid function.

it will improve throttle response, but adjusting the tps (tps mod) will further inhance "tip in" and throttle response. exhaust, removal of the balance shafts, intake, and reduction of rotating mass can really help in that area also.

[OBI WAN]

Yes I will do this one more time.

Where is the throttle body located?
Forward on the intake.

Cylinders 1,2,3,4 are right under the throttle body if you look down the bore. Cylinders 5-6 cant even be seen if you looking into it at and angle.

Which way does the throttle plate open?
Ramped toward the rear of the intake.

Where is the defuser plate?
ON the front of the throttle plate.

What is the CFM useage of a 4.3 @ 80% efficiency?
258 CFM

How much air can the 75 mm bore allow?
490 CFM.

Plate in place and throttle body completely open, what size is it?
65MM roughly.

WHat does 65 MM flow?
450 CFM.

450-258=192 CFM extra

450 CFM is enough air flow for 300 h.p.
How much does a 4.3 make- 180 h.p.

The plate could have opened the other way without a problem, actually it would have been easier to do so. SO was it a mistake? No, it shows the the rear opening has merit under these circumstances.

Do you know the 5.7 also uses one of these??
Yes they do its 1/2 the size.

Why would the V-8 have it? Well it backs this ideal ever further so I finish up a few more points.

People say that is gives them a better throttle response , so I'll take a keen look at it.
Looking now at my throttle body, I open the throttle plate up. As I open it up I cannot see the throttle defuser looking straight down into it at all til about 60% opening. At 60% and as I increase the opening of the plate it now covers more of the area restricting it!! So now knowing how its is working, how can it change the lower rpm area when its placement isnt allowing a restriction until a higher rpm is attained???? There goes the ideal it helps throttle response down low!!! Taking it off does not increase the bore size at these points. SO will open is further and now it restricts the bore. Looking at those correct numbers I mentioned earlier the 4.3 uses 258 @ 80 VE and it can flow 450 CFM total. When does the bore size hit this max 258 and the rest is just leftover? Around 60% opening , so this now can tell me the extra is cut off, the location forward is hampering the front bore while the rear is re-enforced and again the story of helping the rear cylinders out with air flow is again re-enforced, isnt it??

Yeah but I do feel a kick at around 3000 RPM;s when going WOT.
Keenly we will look at that.

With the throttle plate and defuser inplace we will now look into the plenum. Looking up we see the plate opening and the plate ramps rearward while the defuser is making a long tunnel looking effect. Its not blocking off the hole size, but has a depth to is since it does stick down. Right under the plate allmost dead center is this tube sticking out. Its the EGR tube where EGR gas is entering the intake. Its caught under this dead spot of air flow since the ramping rearward and the defuser creates a tunneled air effect, WHY? Well egr could have been added in the intake tube like it is on other cars to create a balanced distribution, but this dead spot also can cause a balanced distribution, how? EGR is sitting in this dead spot awaiting a pull into the mix. As each cylinder opens the vacuum direction pull changes and being in this dead area is will go to the highest vacuum draw, wouldnt it?? If you take the defuser out air as it passes past the plate will expand since it is gettin warmer as it gets heated by the motor and intake temp, isnt it? Warmer causes expansion of air which in turn changes its size. SO once past this defuser is begins to curl around the lip and expand outward. This movement then traps this egr to the forward part of the intake even with a vacuum draw from the rear. The cylinders open and close so fast not enough vacuum is created to outpull the expanding air entering the front of the intake so the front cylinders get the brunt of the EGR.
At 60% opening into WOT egr is shut down completely after 3000 RPM since the TPS signal is going to show a full intent of WOT and not a quick burst. Some people think EGR is shut down at WOT, well it is once a second or 2 passes and intent is considered completely WOT and not a quick tipin and back out. So once this EGR clears out completly from the intake the clylinders that were once running more egre which doesnt combust therefore takes some power out become clean with combustionable air. There is your kick!!! ANd from this points on the front cylinders can run leaner, not lean, leaner since they can get easier access to the air versus the rear!!

Any debate on this ideal??

[OBI WAN]

Lets add another ideal!!

Go get a 1000 CFM throttle body, you'll make more power if you dont believe anything I previously told you. Stands to reason it'l make more power under the current beliefs dont it??

If the 4.3 uses 258 CFM of air and at 60% opening of the current throttle body is max, and the rest is extra, here is what a larger throttle body can do for you. SInce the throttle body is 1000 CFM and the 4.3 uses 258 at max rpm, then at 25.8% opening the rest is extra, isnt it??? So now if you go by throttle feel, wouldnt is suggest a lighter pedal useage for the same rpms areas??? ANd if you go by the foot DYNO, it took less effort so therefore it must have worked???

I wont go into the details of the ECM's reaction unless somebody asks, but just think about the above some, is that your reasoning for a better throttle feel, therefore it works ideal, therefore it works it must creat more power ideal??

[LEADFOOT]

**** you are pretty smart Jedi. You must be an old wise man. To pick your brain some more; What if I clogged the egr pipe? Don't let any egre into the intake. I know its probably illegal but what would happen to my performance?

Also; so by taking the diffuser out we are probably losing a little hp due to the front 2 cylinders sucking up all the egre? so pretty much the back 4 are where the power is coming from if the front 2 are inhaling alot of egr (exhaust doesn't have alot of oxygen in it and a fire can't burn with out oxygen so the front 2 must not be doing well). Just trying to grasp this whole thing.

[Hammer]

Well I'm glad i made the point, thanks obi for the better explanation

[bvr775]

well it's too late to put the diffusor back on. you can pickup a couple of spare trottel blades at a junk yard for experimenting with. I've seen people drill a bunch of holes in the diffusor plates and swear it works and I've seen people cut slits in them and argue with guys who drilled holes or cut the thing off, but without dyno numbers you cant say for sure what works. personally i say move the whole **** TB and shorten the lengthen runners, but cutom cast intakes are mondo exspensive.
it won't hurt anything but performance and only in some cases. shaving half on the diffusor plate is a better mod than complete removal to start.you can alway go back and remove more of the diffusor untill you get it where you want it. Like I said though allot of how this works will depend on if you live on a moutain or sea level. This a tricky subject with allot of debate behind it. The simple fact of the matter is It's not the tottel plate the TB or the computer that resticts the 4/3 or any truck engine. Most truck engines give up a little in the upper rpm for the lower rpm pulling power. In outher words it's in the dersign or the engine. The block is the same as a car engine as for as bore and stroke go. But the differnces in the intake and fuel delivery system along with slight differnces in timming and cam grind, gearing are where you lose all your stupid fast go go power.
hook up a trailer behind a car and truck and you see why trucks give up that high rpm power.

I will add this:
in the case of the newer balance shaft 90* v6 engines. Because of that unbalanced balance shaft your going to have problem gaining high end power anyway. You can have work done to the balance shaft or just remove the gear to get a higher fast reving engine, but there hasn't been allot of published documentation from reputable sources on whether it works are not.

[OBI WAN]

**** you are pretty smart Jedi. You must be an old wise man. To pick your brain some more; What if I clogged the egr pipe? Don't let any egre into the intake. I know its probably illegal but what would happen to my performance?

Also; so by taking the diffuser out we are probably losing a little hp due to the front 2 cylinders sucking up all the egre? so pretty much the back 4 are where the power is coming from if the front 2 are inhaling alot of egr (exhaust doesn't have alot of oxygen in it and a fire can't burn with out oxygen so the front 2 must not be doing well). Just trying to grasp this whole thing.
Old , yes, wise, to some!!!

Illegal, who cares. I was the single handed person responsible for the EGR mods you see today!!! Clog it up, not, but some type of limiting the hole size. NOT ME I WOULDNT ADVOCATE SUCH A THING!!!

Yeah the front cylinders end up getting allmost all the EGR gas with the plate off and the rears do not get much. This causes a cylinder power loss on the front, while the rears are running leaner than they would be. EGR is known as lean burn technology, but doenst mean lean, its a displacer of air and the rears which wont get any while at the same fuel rate for EGR will end up leaner than normal. This unbalance is what you see when the kick is felt, its the cylinders all evening out and creating better power. YOu have a pretty good understanding of it. It is very simple, EGR gas does not burn, it displaces fresh air and when it does this combustion temps drop. It in itself can be thought of as a restrictor. Its not allowing air in by taking its place!!

I have said now for quite some time to half the defuser to make us all feel better since in theory , bigger the better, then restrict the EGR to allow the front cylinders to get more fresh air to balance out the EGR that gets trappped forward by lessoning the amount up in which it inhales and between it all its a real power grabber. Not a whole lot, but throttle response it better with less a displacer of air entering and then fresh air itself with the fuel amount which will lean it up a tad cause during EGR operation the fuel amount is slightly cut back due to the EGR mix in. Good power is made at around 15:1 and not any leaner.

Now I'll open another pandoras box. People think rich is needed to make max power. HORSE SH*T!! Being overly rich will take power out. OH SH*T here it comes pouring in!!

[OBI WAN]

Does anyone know why you go rich into WOT?

All it is, is a safeguard and nothing more!!!

No matter what you use, computer and or a throttlebody/carb, nothing can preassume your intent! Then the motor changes in RPM as fast you can say, well faster than that! So to get ready for the increase in RPM which takes more air, thus needing more fuel, than in the last RPM and this happens so rapidly all tuning is made to go rich on purpose. Its to prepace the amount of air entering is all it really is. There is no way you can accurately add fuel for the air amount when this rapid change is in motion, so protect against leaning out and popping head gaskets, all designs are to go rich and preceed the exact fuel amount you need. If you watch as the rpm increases the richer it goes, it doesnt go from 14.7:1 and straight to 12.?:1 does it??? Also not all fuel makes it to the intake stoke that is was on either. If you could direct inject the absolute fuel needed for the air at a given rpm right into the cylinder, no one would be running outside the high 13- low 14 range ever. Make any sense???

[OBI WAN]

What I do for a living makes all this stuff easy!

I take machines I have never seen before or run and fix them!! How do you do that?? Well you look at the result, how its suppose to run etc and then figure out where its going wrong. Its called troubleshooting and once your used to seeing parts in a configuration and knowing the end result should be and practice it for 25+ years, well!! I guess some call it being wise!! Me its just natural cause the combustion engine is very simple compared to the crap given to me on any given occassion to fix!! It sucks air in, adds fuel, compresses it, fires it and then expels it. Pretty simple and not that complicated in motion on or parts. Your job, figure out how to make it breathe on both sides better!! Best thing I find to use as a tool to understand this, is nature itself. GO to a sand dune, snow area etc and watch how under wind conditions the sand and snow move!!! What happens when you gets near and obstacle of any sort from a hole, tree, fence etc then apply those things you see to air trying to get into the combustion chamber and out, and you'll open your eyes to things that are pretty simple you couldnt understand before by using these wind conditions and sand or snow in mind!! Think of the sand and snow as coloring to the air!!

[LEADFOOT]

So if I limited the egr pipe hole a little it would make things a little better? I know all about troubleshooting I fix copiers and fax machines for a living for 5 1/2 years now but copiers and fax machines or pretty different than engines. I could explain how a copier works like you could explain how an engine works. I know a little bit about engines but not that much. Just the common sense stuff. Your knowledge is well appreciated here. Thanx.

[firehawkclone]

So Jedi master,do you know the part# on the T-plate?And does this all still applied to a SC motor?

[OBI WAN]

So Jedi master,do you know the part# on the T-plate?And does this all still applied to a SC motor?
I have it somewhere on disc if you need it. But I do know that you can ebay and entire untoched TB for probably less then a new plate. This would give you and extra TPS and IAC along with the other spare parts. This is how I did all my testing and still test with is cheap EBAY parts so I dont ruin mine and have spares laying around.
Not and it doesnt apply to a S/C motor. A S/C motors drives air in and this changes everything the motor does under vacuum is which is the reasons most of the stuff is built like it is. Vacuum and pressure act very different most of the time, but sometimes the same. Under boost the intake is pressurized very equally so it doesnt hamper much undoing most of this that it made for under vacuum circumstances.

Oh and a copier is just a engine of sorts. Your taking paper, inhaling, combustioning it- print, then exhaling it!!! Everything applies allmost equally if you think it out, same results!!

[firehawkclone]

Thank you MASTER

[Hammer Head]

...Is this mod even worth doing? Anyone done it to theirs?

[04silveradomykk]

Holey old threads batman

are you refering to the TB diffuser/deflector plate mod? Yea, it was a nice change on mine

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2554000-2554999/2554781_118.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2554000-2554999/2554781_117.jpg

[Hammer Head]

yeah, yeah.. I know. But I figured I'd post up to this one instead of being a newbie & starting 100 new ones.. hahaha

[Mikz86TA]

True. Back when all I had was the K&N FIPK done, I did this mod. It seemed to pull better at highway speeds up on the yop end and a little better off the line.

[Hammer Head]

So how'd you guys do it.. looks like Mykk just ground down the defuser.

[04silveradomykk]

So how'd you guys do it.. looks like Mykk just ground down the defuser.

You got it, I originally removed the whole thing and rivited up the holes. But I was having hesitation right off of idle. So instead I re-attatched the plate and cut it down with a cutting wheel. that got rid of the stumble right off idle.

[Hammer Head]

So the mod hasn't throw any codes, yet?

[Sparky2263]

jeez, I had totally forgotten this boneheaded thread........

[Hammer Head]

Yea, I buy most of the info at the beginning as BS..

[Sparky2263]

This was one of the deals that got me banned. The 2 goofballs couldn't stand facts standing in the way of their bull****.

Then had the gall to take my stuff and credit it as their own.

Priceless..........

[Mikz86TA]

On mine, I just bought the CFM-Tech replacement blade. Seemed the easiest route. And mine was under warranty, so I wanted the option to swap it back in if I ever needed service. Silly me, S10s done need service unless abused or neglected!

[Hammer Head]

I want to do it for a little as possible, free is best! haha.. A lot of the projects I've got goin don't require more than $5 (because I've already got everything here waitin to go in). Until I get the taurus fan on then $30-50. Maybe I'll finally get to relocating my battery around the time I do that.. hmm.