I'm out of the blowers business

[rentedmule]

I apologize in advance for the following rant/whining :p

The rattling metal noise that I thought may be my meth injection nozzle was the headunit - again. I took it off tonight and the impeller has been scuffing the walls and the bearings don't sound good. Thankfully it doesn't look like anything made it into the engine, there were a few fine aluminum shavings around the throttle body that I cleaned up but nothing major.

I'm pretty sure that's the last straw for me, I can't afford having my daily driver this unreliable. The rentedmule has been thoroughly beaten as the saying goes! The annoying thing about it was that I barely pushed it to redline the entire time I had it and it still failed?!?! The only time it's seen full throttle through all the gears was on the dyno before the $1300 "super" (i.e. ****ty) rebuild.

What a huge waste of money this entire experience has been! I figure after selling everything I have into this I'll still be out over $2000. For those thinking about putting a powerdyne on your truck I take back everything nice I've ever said about them - buy a nitrous kit and use the thousands of dallors you have left over for bottle refills!!

[bespurcell]

Wow. That sux. Get a turbo!

[blacksharpie]

Ehhh...sorry to hear that man, but i X2 on the turbo :D

About how many miles did you put on it as a daily?

[rentedmule]

I'd say there was about 1000 miles on it after the last rebuild. It must have gotten a defective bearing or something, there's no other reason it wouldn't have lasted. Belt tension was probably on the loose side and it hadn't been spun anywhere close to what 928 motorsports rates their kit for. I'm going to talk to them in the morning and see what they'll do for me. I'm hoping to get another full rebuild on their dime before I try to sell it.

[Mikz86TA]

That sux. Id never do a PDyne now.
Nice Sig BTW!!

[turbine guy]

rentedmule: If 928 Motorsports won't re-do the head unit, ship it up here. Aircraft spec bearings will last a whole lot longer than the bearings in your head unit now. Let me know.......

turbine guy

[12sws27]

it sad someone wont build a decent blower kit for or trucks. sorry to hear about that Mule. even though mines fine now, i have a feeling its not gonna be the last time. what really sux is turbos and v8 swaps are just not an option for people in my situation. no place to do it or keep all the tools it would take.

[DiCi21]

wow... sorry to hear that man, i hope you are able to get it rebuilt so you're at least able to sell it.

[blacksharpie]

I'd say there was about 1000 miles on it after the last rebuild. It must have gotten a defective bearing or something, there's no other reason it wouldn't have lasted.

Yea....that kinda says it all huh...well I hope they step up for ya, they certainly should....1000 miles sheesh :eek:

[D-Caf]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. What's with all the S/C failures recently? Did I just get lucky (knocking my knuckles raw on wood right now)?

[UR50SLO]

That's no good. :( Hope the company does somthing for you. 1000mi isn't enough to nuke somthing like that from abuse.
Best luck!
~Scott

[rentedmule]

Thanks for the kind words guys! I'm just waiting for Carl at 928 motorsports to call me back now.

Hey Scott - wanna turbo my truck for me :p ? You can probably have it finished faster than I can change my oil! LOL

[87wildside]

That sucks. If they (928) don't want to help you I say flame the **** out of them on all the forums.

X10 for turbo. See what Dogsofjune has left.

[1low_s10]

ever hear back from them? Sorry to hear bout your problem man.

[fastSdime]

Man that sucks. Sorry to hear that. Hopefully they will do something for you.

[spideyjected]

Sucks.

[Bone Crusher]

I feel you on that one....I had that same problem of taking it off then putting it back on...only so many times of doing that before you just say F-it. I told Scott that mine went out on I-95 30 min. into a trip and I just happened to have my tool box. Pulled the unit off right on the side of the road..

[rentedmule]

I feel you on that one....I had that same problem of taking it off then putting it back on...only so many times of doing that before you just say F-it. I told Scott that mine went out on I-95 30 min. into a trip and I just happened to have my tool box. Pulled the unit off right on the side of the road..

LOL, ever since the first time I had trouble with it I've also kept the right wrenches in the truck to take it off if i needed to!

I'm still waiting for the head cheese at 928 to get back to me - I've talked to them a few times this morning to get details straight about when/what I had done and they seemed very helpful so I'm hoping for the best.

[rentedmule]

I hear ya - I was very careful on the belt tension this time around. I tightened it bit by bit over a week or so until it was just tight enough that the longest section of the belt running down from the head unit to the crank pulley didn't flap around.

[04silveradomykk]

who is 928 motorsports? My phone # area code for Prescott Az is 928

[Mikz86TA]

They do Porsche 928 autocrossing ogiginally from what I heard and thats where the name came from.
I was searching last night after I left here and read some stuff.
First, I saw where 928MS has a new charger availible from a company in Austrailia. It seems expensive just for the head unit and theres only kits for Porsche and Ferrari's I saw listed. The head is availible seperately but IDK what it would take to bolt it up.
Second I was on a 'supercharrger' forum and saw some postings about the 'Dynes. One guy summed it up about as correct as Ive seen. He said of 100 people who bought a PDyne, 50% have had issues and 50% have not. The guy from 928 (Carl something) had posted last year (2007) about how PDyne had issues internally with their company, they fired almost everyone and hired/trained new personnel, they were moving, the X11 or whatever that other headunit model is was going to be made from an outsourced manufacturer and that the BD-whatever unit with the silent drive was going to be revamped and renamed.
Checking out PDynes site, I saw nothing in 2008 that has any of their products listed that is different than I saw 2 years ago when I was looking at SC's. IDK if he was defending them for some reason and blowing a bunch of BS or they (PDyne) was infoming him with bad info.
Ive read about 4 places who claim to have 'the best' PDyne rebuild kits. Most are focusing on the bearings (SKF is supposed to have some new aircraft bearing/super greased model), a kevlar belt and a few other things. 928 says they 'vent' the front where the belt and bearing is to aid in cooling or something.
IDK what to say beyond that. It does suck that our truck is so limited on SC options with only 2 bolt-in kits at this time new. One sucks ass apparently.
One bit of info I did find out it that the stock PDyne S-series kit for the 98-up is a 7psi. I thought it was more than that. Which makes the Jammer an equal IMO. 1psi isnt that big of a deal when quality and service are top notch.

[Cameo_S10]

Sorry to hear about all your trouble Mule. I hope everything works out for ya!:cool:

[rentedmule]

yeah, a stock p-dyne kit is 7 psi and should net about the same 60-70hp increase. Dogsofjune talked to someone about the XB1A headunit and was told it wouldn't bolt up to the brackets for the 4.3 kit but no one has tried. That headunit has external oiling like the vortechs so it's likely more reliable and is supposedly good for 18 psi. I should have tried that rather then the super rebuild - it would have been a few hundred dallors more to exchange the BD11a for an XB1A but it may have been worth it - i just wish there was one around that I could try before comitting that kind of money.

The bearings have always been the issue with p-dynes since they take alot of load from the belt pulling down on the pulley and they don't have any flow-through oiling system. Carl who you mentioned was on the superchargers forum runs 928MS and he's who i'm waiting to hear from.

[Mikz86TA]

Well, unless you can dial that PSI down in the XB1A, its not going to like the 4.3 fueling much. If I understand it all correctly, then 7-8 PSI is about the CSFI's limit without adding an extra injector. I guess a 2114 or Marine swap would be the best fix.
Id prefer the external cooling as well. All you got to do is tap a line. Cant you get it off the oil galley block plug? I know SBCs have those. Not sure about the 262's. Hell, you could even add a small in-line oil cooler. And out 4.3s have their own engine oil coolers anyway.

[Mikz86TA]

Heres that thread.
http://www.superchargersonline.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5177

[rentedmule]

I visit that forum every now and then, too bad it isn't more active though. I don't think the oiling would be a problem to set up but I don't know off hand how to do it, the turbo guys would though.

After all the money I've put into this for such little reward I don't think I'd invest in another s/c or turbo project any time soon. I'll see how much I can get for it after it's rebuilt again and then weigh my options for go-fast bits. For now I think I'll use the money I already paid my shop to get a decent dyno tune. I'll probably cry when he manages to squeeze out less than 170 rwhp considering it easily pulled over 200 rwhp at 4000 rpms with no fuel and a slipping blower pulley :( :p

The s/c really makes a huge difference in the over all feel of the truck, even when the boost gauge isn't showing any pressure. The truck just feels heavier and the throttle response isn't instantaneous like it is with the s/c on.

As they always say "You can have fast, reliable, or cheap - pick two!" :D

[Mikz86TA]

How much do you think you will get for it?

[87wildside]

LSx it.

[Zygoat]

there is an oil tap right above the oil filter on the block.

[rentedmule]

How much do you think you will get for it?

It may be wishful thinking but I'm hoping I can get $2000 for it. That would be the complete kit with the FMU, belts, extra pulleys, t-bar clamps, boost gauge, column mount, and the correct alternator if needed. Unlike when I bought it, it would also have all the required spacers and bolts.

Not to offend anyone but alot of s-series guys would rather spend $2000 on big wheels and bags then on a blower (:tapedshut ) so we'll have to see how it goes :). People around this town have crap-loads of money so I'm hoping I can sell it locally.

The good thing is that I now have a meth-injection system for the T/A, I just have to get the right controller for it - MAF sensors didn't exist in 1980 :D

[firefighter]

The more I think about it and the trouble I'm having trying to get help from the Maggie guys AND true statements like this one

Not to offend anyone but alot of s-series guys would rather spend $2000 on big wheels and bags then on a blower
Makes me wonder if there will ever be more than one Eaton S/C kit that I'm responsible for. I hope it works out for you man.

[rentedmule]

If I still have my 'noma when you finish the eaton kit I may be on your customer list :)

driving normally aspriated sucks!

[Zygoat]

ok ive had this idea for a while now, probably already been done but i think it should work. if you bolt a plate on the front of the s/c then it should take all of the load that is normally placed on the bearings and substantially increase there life. you would have to remove it to get the serp. belt off, but is that really a big deal? compared to what you would gain? (ie not having to remove and rebuild the hu so often.)

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u166/Zygoat_D/s_c.jpg

i am pretty sure that you could get this made for like $50. and it would probably be well worth it. just an idea.

[firefighter]

Have hope tho firefighter, the 4.3 was in more vehicles than just s-10's, and is still in production. May take a bit to market it, but it can pan out.


I hope your right. I'm just a little frustrated the Tech guy at Maggie is swamped with the TVS kits that they are developing that they really don't have the time for my stuff thinking from a business standpoint I can see where they are coming from they stand to make way more money with their kits than they do with mine.

[Mikz86TA]

Im not educated on how these are made inside that front peice. Iassume a single bearing on a shaft with a belt around a pulley. But having a pair of bearings or a support like you show with a small sealed bearing up front would help I would guess. If thats the issue.
ok ive had this idea for a while now, probably already been done but i think it should work. if you bolt a plate on the front of the s/c then it should take all of the load that is normally placed on the bearings and substantially increase there life. you would have to remove it to get the serp. belt off, but is that really a big deal? compared to what you would gain? (ie not having to remove and rebuild the hu so often.)

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u166/Zygoat_D/s_c.jpg

i am pretty sure that you could get this made for like $50. and it would probably be well worth it. just an idea.

[rentedmule]

That would be pretty easy to fab up and bolt on. I'd like to hear from the guys at 928 on whether the front bearing is a real issue in their opinion. Their website claims alot of the problems come from overheating the oil in the bearings or the internal drive belt "floating" off of the gear at high RPMs and getting caught up.

Most of the threads I've read about wrecked p-dynes have always involved a shredded drive belt but mine was fine both times - probably a testament to the fact that it hadn't been spun fast enough to cause that kind of failure. I still have two extras sitting around from the rebuilds

[firefighter]

Oh yeah I'm gonna be persistant but it seems like the summer is gonna be just alot of bench racing and brainstorming.

[Zygoat]

yea it will take some custom work but it will resolve the front pulley being prone to wearing out, you can crank the belt as tight as you want, so no more slipping and it should help longevity overall.

im not a s/c guy but i hear a ton of people talking about how their impeller touched and caused problems or the bearings failing, this should help with both.

[12sws27]

wouldnt this brace have to have some kinda bearing in it too? doesnt the pulley bolt spin with the pulley?

[Zygoat]

yea but it will change the way the load is distributed, it will remove all of the torsional stress on the components, making it all linear, which the bearings are designed to handle much better.

[firefighter]

Yeah but isn't part of the problem with the bearings that they are unlubricated (oil) and have trouble keeping up under the speeds they reach.

[firefighter]

Yeah I was refering to the one on the bracket. Can you get a standard industial bearing that would keep up with the speeds? B/C it's just hanging out there w/o any possibility of lube so I would be thinking High Speed Shielded but that is still ALOTof RPM. what are we talking some ridiculous 50-60K? Like turbo speeds or what?

[87wildside]

Since part of the problem is the belt doesn't wrap around the pulley enough which causes the need for higher belt tension wouldn't changing or adding idler pulley(s) help? I know in Tyson's case it most likely wasn't a belt tension issue but it still seems to be one of the main problems.

Another thing is maybe swap bearings. I just bought some sealed bearings and prices for the same dimensions ranged from $5 to about $35. It all had to do with load, tolerances, speed and lubrication. Maybe the companies building these are trying to save a few bucks by using the wrong (cheap) bearings.

[87wildside]

what are we talking some ridiculous 50-60K? Like turbo speeds or what?Not if it's the pulley side.

[Zygoat]

Yeah I was refering to the one on the bracket. Can you get a standard industial bearing that would keep up with the speeds? B/C it's just hanging out there w/o any possibility of lube so I would be thinking High Speed Shielded but that is still ALOTof RPM. what are we talking some ridiculous 50-60K? Like turbo speeds or what?

no the one outside will be spinning at engine speed so 5-6k max, there is internal gears or belts that get the impeller up to the higher rpms to make boost. they have bearings that are completely sealed so they need no external oiling.

[Zygoat]

Since part of the problem is the belt doesn't wrap around the pulley enough which causes the need for higher belt tension wouldn't changing or adding idler pulley(s) help? I know in Tyson's case it most likely wasn't a belt tension issue but it still seems to be one of the main problems.

Another thing is maybe swap bearings. I just bought some sealed bearings and prices for the same dimensions ranged from $5 to about $35. It all had to do with load, tolerances, speed and lubrication. Maybe the companies building these are trying to save a few bucks by using the wrong (cheap) bearings.

928 (or whatever it is) and other rebuild/ performance companies use upgraded bearings. but there is still more room to go better, with the air craft spec bearings.

[87wildside]

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/FullCeramicBearings

Just an idea of the price of "good" bearings

[Bone Crusher]

TO be honest with you, I thought they would be more than that....At least we know now that every time Al has to rebuild one of those he is out a couple hundred bucks plus whatever machining has to be done on the unit

[12sws27]

TO be honest with you, I thought they would be more than that....At least we know now that every time Al has to rebuild one of those he is out a couple hundred bucks plus whatever machining has to be done on the unit
if he even uses bearing that good. idk what "good" bearings cost, but i have a feeling that both s/c companies or using garbage. my s/c starting to make "the noise" again. im not surprised though. im sure that with mine, there's something wrong with the unit. thats burning up the bearings. when i put the belt on mine, i do as instructed. so if thats to tight then wtf? Al even tells me "make sure the belt is tight, check and readjust it, the belt will stretch". i wish i could just open my unit up a look for myself. just to see what kinda bearings it has. but he might have something that will let him know if it was opened. so im skeerd.:shake_125

Mule, i think your taking it well. last time mine started acting up. i was ready to give my truck to my wife, sell her Dakota and ride a bike while i save money for a Camaro. but im getting used to this B.S. my s/c has spent more time in the mail than it has on my Blazer.

[rentedmule]

LOL, I'm not sure I'm really taking it well, I'm just not writing down how pissed I am! I still haven't talked to Carl at 928 yet, I was too busy at work today to call so I'm not sure what they're going to do yet.

Some of the bearings in the headunit are sealed ceramic pieces already. 928 supposedly had SKF custom make them a bearing that can withstand more heat than standard. Just the rebuild without the new impeller and shaft that I got is $700. Dogsofjune had his done with those parts and it seems to be working okay - I may have just gotten a dud.

Is it possibly to reliably run a 100 shot without getting inside the motor :p ??? Maybe with a progressive controller or something? (can you tell I'm bored of running without the blower already?)

[bespurcell]

I couldn't tell.

[12sws27]

i understand. i dont wanna take mine off. i dont even like driving it without the blower anymore and i havent even had the thing that long.

[bespurcell]

Addicts.

[firefighter]

You know I didn't even think about that the pulley would only be doing around engine speed. derrrr.

[rentedmule]

Addicts.

I'm not an addict... I just need my damn power!!! Quickly!!

...but I'm not an addict

[bespurcell]

Doh!












:D

[bespurcell]

The first step is admitting it......

[12sws27]

Addicts.
i(ve) had/have worse addictions. :smokin2:

[bespurcell]

Speed kills.

[12sws27]

Speed kills.
yeah...and so does time. try to avoid that one. :D

[spideyjected]

Maybe it's time for the big block conversion, that should give you plenty of power in a dime. Are these S/C's manufactured in the U.S.? If so that's embarassing IMO.

[rentedmule]

latest update - after many calls/emails/voicemails to 928MS over a full week I finally heard back from Carl. He can't guarantee it'll be repaired for free but he stressed that they usually only charge for parts or not at all. I'm hoping it's the latter or I won't be a happy customer.

I'm still debating on whether I'm actually out of the blowers business or whether I'll cave and put it back on the truck. I think if I have to pay a substantial amount for this repair then I won't have any choice but to sell it.

[Bone Crusher]

He said strap it on: :dong:

[rentedmule]

I noticed that but I didn't want to encourage him

[12sws27]

give it just one more try. you know you wanna.

[rentedmule]

it's tempting but if it failed again I'd probably rage to the point where I uninstalled it from the truck with one of my fire-axes (I have several. I'm not a fireman.), some form of fire to make the axe appropriate, a tow-rope, and a telephone pole.

[12sws27]

so any news? what's going on? they gonna fix it? wanna buy a jammer? j/k

[rentedmule]

LOL! Carl from 928MS just left a message on my phone this afternoon while I was at work, hopefully I'll get a chance to talk to him tomorrow - he didn't say much on the message, just that he got the headunit yesterday and looked at it.

[rentedmule]

Apparently one of the smaller bearings was fried. He was confident that I spun it too fast and that the 2.75" pulley was too small. Everything else inside the headunit was fine and he said the impeller had just barely scuffed so there was no real damage.

He felt that moving up a pulley size would fix all the issues I was having, even though the one I have on there now is only one size down from stock. I explained that based on the claims he was making about the super rebuild that I thought I should be able to easily run one pulley size down but he didn't buy it!

He said he just found a new manufacturer yesterday that has a bearing rated for a full 200 degrees hotter then the best ones he's using now so I'm going to wait 2 weeks for those to come in. They can supposedly handle more heat on a continuous basis then the current set can handle for short peaks.

It'll be $140 for the work which isn't horrible I guess - that's less than half of what they charge for their best bearings now. He was pretty damn excited about these bearings so hopefully they're not just hype. I'll swap back to the 7 psi pulley when I get it back anyway and see how it goes.

According to Carl, the super rebuild's should last at least 10K miles so I'm hoping this fixes the problem for good! As I said before, if it doesn't fix it, the next time I take the headunit out it'll be with an axe :D

[rentedmule]

I was probably putting out close to 2 psi more at peak and tonnes more boost on the low end with the last rebuild. It'd do 5 psi + at 2500 rpms with lots of traction/load

[Sleeper S10]

I had the 9 psi pulley on my '99 S10 for about 5/6 years and maybe 30,000 kms and so far no problems but I'm expecting for the unit to one day blow. So far it hasn't been touched.

I don't like how 928 didn't fix that for you being that they talk so highly on there site about that Performance Rebuild. That sucks.

If the ATI kit was offered still I would consider ordering that but Mach Performance never pics up the phone?

Hope you have better luck with the new bearing and don't give up .

[rentedmule]

yeah, the procharger kit had alot of potential but Mach was a pretty sketchy outfit from what I've heard. I'm hoping this rebuild lasts a long while - I don't really care about squeezing every last HP out it!

[firefighter]

Call ATI direct in Lenexa KS, or visit the website (http://www.procharger.com/), and they'll tell you who an authorized dealer is in your locale. Order the kit for a 5.7l. That easy.

Then figure out how to fuel and intercool it. :confused:

[rentedmule]

Where there is a will, there is a way.

...a will + cash. lots and lots of cash :p

[12sws27]

...a will + cash. lots and lots of cash :p
a will + cash and/or credit. lots and lots of cash and/or credit :D

[firefighter]

Yeah I know the Mantra well that's kinda what I got going with the Eaton set up......... But alas I've hit a wall. That is another threads conversation though.

[rentedmule]

The blower is in the mail now, it should be here next week sometime. I'm going to back off to a 2.93" pulley and see if it'll last time. I'm guessing it'll put out around 8-9 psi with that one on. As soon as it gets back I'll get it back on and tuned and give it another go! wish me luck...

[Cameo_S10]

The blower is in the mail now, it should be here next week sometime. I'm going to back off to a 2.93" pulley and see if it'll last time. I'm guessing it'll put out around 8-9 psi with that one on. As soon as it gets back I'll get it back on and tuned and give it another go! wish me luck...

Good luck man...I hope it works out good for you this time!:D

[12sws27]

good luck man.

[bespurcell]

Good luck.

[rentedmule]

The title of this thread is now officially a lie (for now)!

I finally got the larger pulley on and bolted everything up again this morning. There's definately a noticable difference from the small pulley but it still feels strong. I've gotta break it in before hitting the rollers so I'll book the dyno time for sometime next week if I can get in.

Hopefully this rebuild will last longer then the first 2! The track record of the supercharged members on the planet needs to be redeemed!