2.2L is dead!

[Rickyboy]

Hello all,
i appreciate and never underestimate past experience when it comes to troubleshooting a problem, so I am asking for advice.
I have a 95 S10 pickup with 2.2L This is my daily driver as I travel 75 miles per day round trip to work, and the 4cyl really helps.
The other day, as I was on my way to work, truck was stumbling a bit while still cold. Note, this has been going on for a while, however usually clears itself up after it warms up. On this day however, it was stumbling worse than normal, and as I gave it some gas to clear it out, it only popped, died, and that was it.. It will turn over, but not start, not even a hint at trying to start. Prior to this, it always starts instantly. Motor has about 200K on it (yes I know) but still ran strong. No reason to rebuild yet, and really wanted to see how long she would go. Tranny is different story, but motor was strong.
Anyways, what do you think? Is there something simple I should check first?
How about a list of what to check first, and so on?
I am wondering if it jumped timing, and I will do compression check, but, when cranking, still sounds smooth, but who knows. There may be something I am not thinking of that you have had experience with. I will follow list, as these days I am short on time to dink around myself,and I'll report back with findings. Thanks for your help guys in advance..
Rich

[kaba168]

If it popped before it died, might wanna check the control module. do you get a spark?

[Rickyboy]

If it popped before it died, might wanna check the control module. do you get a spark?

Have not checked spark yet. Just pushed truck into garage last night.
Will check today.. Where is ignition control module located, and how does the pop from motor affect the module?
Thanks

[Jongo88]

Just sheck all the simple things first. Spark and at the right time, Fuel pressuer.

[spideyjected]

I'd check spark first. Coil pack or fuel pump

[keldoran23]

Compression test and timing would be the first thing I would check. It kinda sounds like the chain was stretched a bit and then just snapped.

[BigTruckDrivah]

Just sheck all the simple things first. Spark and at the right time, Fuel pressuer.

X2, You will know if the timing chain is broken because it would turn over wildly like it has no compression.

[Nickelin'Dimer]

With 200,000mi on it, I wouldn't rule-out the chain at all. They usually fail 'round 100,000 on the LN2, but I've seen cases of J-cars with the same engine going as long as you have without trouble. Some supposedly even longer, but I think those were in Canada & they were listing in metric.

If you go to test compression, do what I did:

Run the test once on each cylinder, then loosen the rockers so they can be turned & rotate them off of the valve-tips. Run the test twice more on each cylinder, pulling the gauge-only off between tests to allow the cylinder to vent, but only if the cylinder sounds like it's resting at BDC when you stopped cranking (BTW: Pull all the plugs first, and disconnect the Crank-position sensor from the ICM).

Mark both the 2nd & 3rd run numers down and compare them to each other. then compare just the 3rd-run's numbers to themselves cyl-cyl. If the numbers compare close to each-other in both comparasions, then your valves are okay.

Also, after doing the test like I said, you can just change the chain-set if it cranked-over pretty-much like xacy0303 said.

[Rickyboy]

OK bad news is took until today to get this truck in garage.
Believe it or not, I own a F250 which crapped out on me the following day this one died. Got that up and running again ( Coil pack on #8 cyl went bad)
But this S10 is my daily driver so here we go.. The good news is it has no spark ( rules out alot of mechanical issues ) but the bad news is it has no spark lol. And right now I have no idea where all the electrical hardware is located (ignition module)
Where is it, and is there a way to check it out before I drop 100 bucks or more replacing parts. Also, any fuses or other common issues I should be looking at.
thanks, I will await your reply, and sip on some cold ones

[Rickyboy]

Ok,
Got the coils off, and removed the ign module.
Called local autozone and dude tells me they cant check out that module (dont have ability) Whatever.. Anyways, can someone tell me whether or not there is a way to check it out with a meter to see if its good or not?
Also, how about the crank sensor as well.?( I assume thats the sending unit next to the ign module with 2 wires coming from it and plugging into module)
I dont think the coils are bad, as no cylinder shows any spark and dont believe both would go bad at once. But, is there a way to check these as well?
Any help would be great.
Anybody???

[Nickelin'Dimer]

There's no way for a DIYer to check the module other than just to replace it with a known-working unit. And as you (re)install the pack (ICM & coils) be careful how you thread & tighten the bolts as that aluminum bracket is relatively soft & can easily become cross-threaded or stripped-out. If that happens, all you can do is find a lil' wider bolt and trey to thread it in, as the bolt's threads will cut new one's into the aluminum (I've had this happen & done this, so I know it works).

Say... How many miles are on your truck, anyway? I've had a friend have them fail on his '98 & he replaced them both with a couple of spares I had after installing MSD coils. remember: If one fails, you should replace them both. Ohm them out with a multi-meter to see if you do have a failed coil (instructions here on this site as to how). Do the same with the CKP removed from the engine, which is held in palce with only one bolt. And while you're at it, get a service manual to help you with any future troubles so you don't need to come on-line to search, and wait, for an answer.

[Rickyboy]

There's no way for a DIYer to check the module other than just to replace it with a known-working unit. And as you (re)install the pack (ICM & coils) be careful how you thread & tighten the bolts as that aluminum bracket is relatively soft & can easily become cross-threaded or stripped-out. If that happens, all you can do is find a lil' wider bolt and trey to thread it in, as the bolt's threads will cut new one's into the aluminum (I've had this happen & done this, so I know it works).

Say... How many miles are on your truck, anyway? I've had a friend have them fail on his '98 & he replaced them both with a couple of spares I had after installing MSD coils. remember: If one fails, you should replace them both. Ohm them out with a multi-meter to see if you do have a failed coil (instructions here on this site as to how). Do the same with the CKP removed from the engine, which is held in palce with only one bolt. And while you're at it, get a service manual to help you with any future troubles so you don't need to come on-line to search, and wait, for an answer.

Well,she's up and running again.
It was definitely a bad ign. module.. However, wasn't out of the woods yet when I changed it. She wanted to start, but also was stumbling quite a bit. Turrns out #4 plug wire was inop as well. The lead within the plug wire, which typically is stripped, bent over and crimped to the connector, was burnt away. Fixed that, and now truck runs smooth again.
Now that ignition is fine again, you can start to notice little nuances as well. At idle, when coming off throttle, engine hunts a bit with rpm's before steadying out, as if a vacuum issue.
I have a question about EGR valve. Is vacuum normally always present to the valve? I pulled hose to it while at idle,, and no vacuum at the line, nor did it make any difference to the motor when I did so. There is good vacuum to the PCV valve at valve cover, and when I do pull it, rpm's actually rise (normal?)
Thanks for your input!

[spideyjected]

All pretty normal yes.

[Nickelin'Dimer]

Before the OBD-II system was introduced, the only method of controlling the EGR on the LN2 was a ECM-controled solenoid placed in-line between the valve & the vacuum source. This allows the EGR to be a lil' more precisely controled, in that the ECM will energize the solenoid when certain parameters are met (I.E.: Engine temp so high, throttle opened so far, cruise RPM maintained for so long, etc.). So if you didn't see vacuum, that parameters weren't being met at the time to cause the computer to open the vacuum circuit to the valve.

Still, carbon can build-up on the valve's pintle & pintle-seat area, causing it to hang open. You could try removing it & soaking that area of the valve (Only!) in a small tub of PB Blaster or Mopar Heat-Riser Solvent overnight & working it every so often by hand by pressing against the side of the diaphram that usually faces down with your fingers, but since it's supposed to be replaced every so often anyway (Like the catalytic convertor is suppose to be) I'd just replace it. The part number for your app will be stamped on the top-side of the diaphram shell for reference.

[kaba168]

I agree w/ mr. dimer. The Idle air control motor should be checked for that wandering idle problem. Pretty inexpensive part too. also check all your vaccuum hoses, couldn't hurt.

[Nickelin'Dimer]

Yeah, I've got that problem (But to any extreme) on my '94, but a simple spraying of carb cleaner down the slot in the intake horn that leads to it (With the engine running, mind you) should clear it up.

[mentallytwisted]

ok, i also own a 95 s10 with a 2.2, yes you can test the ignition control module, take it to an oreilly, napa, or carquest. The coil packs are only about 20 bucks a piece, no way to test those unfortunatly. My 2.2 spun a bearing on it, i was 700 into the rebuild with alot more to spend. When someone offered me a 4.3 motor for free....so now i am looking at redoing the wire harness.....so much fun.

[hero dave]

you can test a coil pack, they are just chunks of metal with wire wrapped around them, you OHM it...just like you do on the OLD cars...I think they tell you how to do it in very mantainance manual. and as for the ignition module I think he was saying that HIS autozone didn't have the tester.

[BigTruckDrivah]

I think your S10 is telling you it really wants a V8 for christmas man!

[87wildside]

BFH.

[Nickelin'Dimer]

you can test a coil pack, they are just chunks of metal with wire wrapped around them, you OHM it...just like you do on the OLD cars...I think they tell you how to do it in very mantainance manual. and as for the ignition module I think he was saying that HIS autozone didn't have the tester.
Yes, you can test it with an Ohmmeter. And the books tell you how. The specs escape me right now, but they should be anything but infinity across the low-voltage posts & the high-voltage tower-points. And if you have other than infinity between one of the low- & high-voltage points, toss it & get a new one!

[BigTruckDrivah]

BFH.

WTF is a BFH?

[bespurcell]

WTF is a BFH?
Big Funny Hammer or somthting like that.

[nnutthowze99]

That's funny that autozone said they can't check your ignition module...I know for a fact that oriellys and advanced auto can check them...and if its bad, be ready to drop about 159 bones....as far as the cps goes...throw one on anyways...only like 10 bucks