GM seeks UAW help to ease financial burden

[OBI WAN]

All I can personally say, ITS ABOUT TIME! Dam overpaid underworked piles of crap killing the US economy, chasing manufacturing jobs outside the US!


UAW- Under Achieving Workers- Useless *******s Working

DETROIT -- Now that General Motors Corp. (javascript:companybox('GM')) has laid bare its dismal financial outlook for the year, the automaker is expected to call on the United Auto Workers union to dig deep to aid the company.

GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner will have the opportunity to plead the automaker's case directly to UAW leaders during an annual meeting between the two groups April 14 in Dearborn.

In a notice distributed Thursday to UAW leaders at GM's U.S. plants, GM and the UAW said the meeting will "provide participants an update of what's going on in the auto industry." No other details were given.

Wagoner is expected to give the UAW a sobering assessment of the state of the company and the auto industry.

Along with Wagoner, UAW President Ron Gettelfinger, Vice President Richard Shoemaker, who heads the union's GM department, plant managers and human resources personnel are scheduled to attend.

At least one local union official said his membership is prepared to do its part to assist the automaker in cutting its onerous health care costs.

"We have a sneaky suspicion health care will be a big part of it," said Jim Kaster, president of UAW Local 1714 in Lordstown, Ohio.

But it may take more than goodwill and voluntary steps to pull GM out of the swoon that triggered the company to warn that it will lose about $850 million in the first quarter, its worst three-month loss since 1992.

GM also said its 2005 profits will come in as much as 80 percent below earlier projections.
GM's sudden profit warning this week continued to reverberate Thursday, with the automaker's shares tumbling a second straight day, by 66 cents, or 2.28 percent, to $28.35. Its shares sank 14 percent Wednesday to $29.01.

Even with GM's fortunes slipping, analysts doubt the automaker has the leverage to coax the union into reopening its current labor contract covering wages and benefits through September 2007. Under the existing pact, workers are scheduled to receive 2 percent raises this September and another 3 percent raise in 2006.

Such a move has only been done once before. In 1980, to prevent Chrysler Corp. from seeking bankruptcy protection and as part of a federal government loan guarantee, the UAW granted wage concessions to the automaker.

"GM hasn't shown enough of a hit to warrant a reopener," said Sean McAlinden, an economist and labor expert with the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. "The UAW is absolutely up to date as to how much of a financial difficulty GM is in. The question is whether the rank and file is convinced."

That doesn't mean the union won't be pressed to make some concessions. McAlinden said Wagoner is likely to ask the union to "either give up pennies and some wages or plants and people."

Local 1714's Kaster says workers are becoming acutely aware of the crisis and are being urged to take steps that will cut health care costs, including the purchase of generic drugs.

"We are trying to get the people in the plant to realize what's going on and go to a doctor that's not gouging the company," Kaster said. "Benefits reps are talking to people."

Health care costs have become a drain on the automaker. Last year, GM spent $5.2 billion on health care and expects to shell out $5.6 billion in 2005.

"We are going to continue to have ongoing conversations with the relative parties, particularly the UAW, and we're going to try to work with them," Wagoner said during a Wednesday conference call. "We can make a lot of progress through cooperation. People like Ron Gettelfinger and **** Shoemaker have been good about discussing issues, but these are tough issues by nature."

David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, said the UAW has no choice but to work with GM in solving its financial woes, not out of altruism, but out of the need to hang on to dwindling jobs.

"The union will come to the party on this one," Cole said. "If I'm a union member and this company could go over the falls ... my labor contract becomes lead -- it's gone."

If the UAW was to grant GM any concessions, Ford Motor (javascript:companybox('F')) Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG would almost certainly seek similar cuts.

Under terms of the current contract, GM is taking three plants out of production this year. An assembly plant in Baltimore, Md., is closing, while factories in Linden, N.J., and Lansing are being permanently idled with virtually no chance of receiving a new product to build.

But industry and financial analysts insist GM still has too many factory workers and plants. GM's current network of North American plants is enough to support 30 percent of annual U.S. car and truck sales. But GM's U.S. market share has steadily declined to 25 percent this year.

Because of plant closings and permanent production cuts, GM currently has 3,500 idled UAW workers that are still collecting 95 percent of their regular pay. To lower costs, analysts speculate GM could offer some of those workers early retirement.

Through February, GM sales are down 10 percent. Few of its newly launched vehicles have made an impact with consumers.

GM is chipping away at its massive operating costs by pressing suppliers for price breaks. This week, it eliminated merit raises for salaried workers and reduced the company match for employee retirement saving plans from 50 cents on the dollar to 20 cents.

But the national contract with the UAW gives U.S. automakers much less leverage with union-represented hourly workers, which means they must wait until they can negotiate a new pact in 2007 to forge a better deal.

[bvr775]

you ain't got to tell me about unions. We don't have many good unions left down here on the gulf coast and one of the big 3 is planing to biuld yet anoughter plant right here in my neck of the woods because of it. WE would have had it 4 years ago but we have some crooked polititians down here left over from a time not so long ago that are scaring buisness off.

[Maximus]

Im glad their sales are going down the toilet.Maybe then they will give consumers what they want not what they think we might want.So ha ha to you GM.

[squirrel]

Sir, while you blast the UAW, could you also include Mr. Wagoner, I bet he don't make 60K a year, ehhh. Maybe some cutbacks from "all concerned" in our companies would help. I could probably retire on some stock options alone for some. Sorry, I don't see it falling on one group.

[gotswrv]

As a production working UAW member I saw around 40K. In a year with a LOT of overtime, 50K. Not really living too fat on the hog. Enough to, buy a car, pay bills, have cable, and not have to ask the state for lunch money for the kids. I know there are a lot of families that have to work 2 jobs to keep this lifestyle up. It has been a few years since I worked production, the pay has gone up, maybe 50K is about right for a year of 40hrs.?. But I never thought I/they could fall into overpaid. Certainly might think of many of the non-union jobs I've worked as underpaid and many time unsafe.

The US worker is considered one of the worlds most efficient and quality minded. This is why quite a few foreign car manufactures are now building here. I'm sure some of your favorite examples of why Americans cars suck, are indeed American built. Many of our jobs leave do to safety and environmental regulations that competing countries do not have. Chances are good that the members of the UAW in the Big 3 will have to give up or pay for some of there benefits, possibly reduced pensions, etc. Some how these things don't strike me as good for Americans... Maybe necessary to keep things floating, but not a good sign. I would think it good to find out what is causing the holes, not just be happy one got patched. It is hard for me to build a case to even suggest that any one party is at cause for our downfalls. I believe as a whole we set our course, you've got a hand on the wheel, where are you trying to go?

As a person who would be very affected by 3.5 million people who could be directly unemployed and countless others whom would be a fall out of this, I do hope all parties can be satisfied. For all of the Big 3, and for the other "foreign" US manufactures. As someone I work with said, "When times a hard, there had for all, when it's good it's good for all. TIMES ARE NOT GOOD." But as you draw the picture these bad times getting worse is good for the economy. At least your's. As I like to say, "making the ladder shorter, doesn't move up higher off the ground".

It is astounding to me that you would wish, or rather cheer, hard times on such a large part of our economy. I know that many of these so called "underworked piles of crap" contribute a great deal of there earnings back into the economy, as well as there community. Would we be better served to leave them unemployed? As for under worked, how many of the factory workers have you come to know? Of those how many are not broken down, partially crippled, wholly because of there "underworked" jobs? Have you done this work for any length of time? Would you? It is my experience that for most, the workload is set to let one go 20-25 years before the deterioration shows. By then the damage is permanent, and the time served verses the time left leaves these people volunteering there health for there pensions and other benefits they have put these years into. Much of this work force is nearing retirement, with the Big 3 not doing well this added burden has come at a bad time. Does this timing constitute grounds to deny these workers what they suffer for every day? Chances are they will decide bare this weight of all Americans. When the UAW does give concession (I think they surely will) they will be doing it to better all our way of life. Because if the Big 3 are driven to bankruptcy the nation well be on a new level of "bad times"

Most importantly to me, for you go about thinking of a group this large, and diverse, in manners as you, do suggests to me the same hatred that is known as racism, is at play in you. I have heard it called classism. I'm quite sure there are better terms I am not familiar with. Shame on you for judging me, my friends, my coworkers, and millions of others. I will not think so lowly of you. As I said before, you have a hand on the wheel, but where are you going?

To think that someone else's hardships to benefit others is joyful, has absolutely been the downfall of this post. Read some labor history, find out what it took to get the worker rights we enjoy today. I think you may be bringing the ship full circle.


Sam

[OBI WAN]

Before I begin with a solid rebuttal, I spent 9 months working for the UAW and I know how the system works. There are unworked and overpaid compared to the rest of the US doing the same jobs externally outside UAW control. The average UAW worker here, and its the same in all regions of the US, in correlation to to the regions money, makes $46.50 with all benefits etc according to a release from GM in 1998. Average person here doing the same EXACT jobs makes just over $28 and hour with benefits etc.



""""((As a production working UAW member I saw around 40K. In a year with a LOT of overtime, 50K. Not really living too fat on the hog. Enough to, buy a car, pay bills, have cable, and not have to ask the state for lunch money for the kids. I know there are a lot of families that have to work 2 jobs to keep this lifestyle up. It has been a few years since I worked production, the pay has gone up, maybe 50K is about right for a year of 40hrs.?. But I never thought I/they could fall into overpaid. Certainly might think of many of the non-union jobs I've worked as underpaid and many time unsafe.))"""

As I stated I worked for the UAW at Rochester Products in 1986. For what I did in a machine shop and required to, to keep a job, was what it took 6 UAW workers to do. I'm a full fledged machinist, specializing it automatic screw machines. At Rochester Products if I jogged a machine to much and tripped the breaker I had to get and electrician to reset it. Broke and oil line, get a plumber. Tools were dull, take them out and WAIT for the twice a day pickup and have the tool sharperner do them and return them the next day if you were lucky. When the tool didnt work, get a troubleshooter and if he couldnt figure it out, get the setup guy and if he couldnt figure it out, get the macine engineer. Our production was not allowed to exceed 50% of the machine capability. Well I couldnt take this constant boredom and did all myown work and outproduced everyone in the plave by a 2:1 margin at least. It got me warning from the union steward, which I ignored, got my lunch thrown into the oil system and my tool box welded shut multiple times and I quit! If that isnt overpaid and unworked when I did it all with no problem and had been doing it like that in the real world for 8 previous years, I dont know what is!!!

"""((The US worker is considered one of the worlds most efficient and quality minded. This is why quite a few foreign car manufactures are now building here. I'm sure some of your favorite examples of why Americans cars suck, are indeed American built. Many of our jobs leave do to safety and environmental regulations that competing countries do not have. Chances are good that the members of the UAW in the Big 3 will have to give up or pay for some of there benefits, possibly reduced pensions, etc. Some how these things don't strike me as good for Americans... Maybe necessary to keep things floating, but not a good sign. I would think it good to find out what is causing the holes, not just be happy one got patched. It is hard for me to build a case to even suggest that any one party is at cause for our downfalls. I believe as a whole we set our course, you've got a hand on the wheel, where are you trying to go?))"""

US worker, not UAW worker!! GM has been selling its not profitable subsystems for years due to those very facts you state being 100% turned around. GM has adopted QS-9000 and other systems since then to get the quality levels and production levels to half way decent points. QS is a model of Japanese management strategies and European ones also. QS stands for what- Quality System!

Average US workers now pay at least 25% of there own medical benefits and more, while UAW workers dont. The majority of US workers have to pay into a 401K and hope for a match to retire. UAW workers have had there pensions paid from 100% to semi reduced levels since the mid 60's!

Foreign car makers buils here because of the high tariffs impossed cause the UAW cried so hard because jobs were leaving. So what did the other countries do, well they went to hard economic areas where people would world for ****loads less than a UAW area. Where workers cared a little more and no longer would the tariffs exist. GM goes to Mexico because they knew monkeys could put that one screw into that one part for 20 years and be happy with $1.75 and hour versus the $40+ and hour for a UAW worker that would still ***** and do it just as wrong as the monkey! ( Sorry to the Spanish, was just a point being made).




"""((As a person who would be very affected by 3.5 million people who could be directly unemployed and countless others whom would be a fall out of this, I do hope all parties can be satisfied. For all of the Big 3, and for the other "foreign" US manufactures. As someone I work with said, "When times a hard, there had for all, when it's good it's good for all. TIMES ARE NOT GOOD." But as you draw the picture these bad times getting worse is good for the economy. At least your's. As I like to say, "making the ladder shorter, doesn't move up higher off the ground".))"""

3.5 million overpaid UAW workers would be replaced by 3.5 million other US citizens that would be happy to have a decent paying job!

In 1976, the minimum wage was $2.15. It took less than 1/2 hour to make enough for one gallon of gas. Now at $6 and hour, little over 1/3rd and hour to pay for a tank of gas. Thats what a starting apprentice right out of school would get in the real world that a starting UAW workers would see, $9.75+.

In 1976, $5k would buy you a nice car- Took 2325 hours to pay it off.
2005, 18K buys you a **** box- Takes 3000 hours to pay it off.

Just imagine if the UAW worker didnt assemble, build or anything else and it was subcontracted out and even the given of todays cars changes that must be in place, I'd imagine we could get back to a decent car and 2325 hours to pay it off!

Unions once had a real purpose in the US and helped make great strides, which everyone does enjoy today in there jobs, thats a given I will not take away. But since the mid 60's they have done more harm than good to the US economy!


By the way, I run a machine shop, job shop we call it and STOLE god knows how many UAW jobs away simply cause we do it better and cheaper and dont strike, cry and complain half nearly a UAW worker!!

[Mike 92S10]

Ask the big exec's how much of a bonus they earned last year. Multimillion I bet. Then ask them to take the same percentage of cuts that they are asking their employees to take. What do you think their answer will be? If a company files bankruptcy do the exec'ss get hurt? No. The U.S. courts allows them the keep thier salaries.
I work for a major steel company that supplies steel to all the major auto companies. As profits increase so does salaries and bonuses for top exec's and share holders. Very little is put back into the facilities that produce the steel. They are running the mills into the ground. In 20 years at this rate the steel industry will cease to exist. The auto industry will be forced to buy foreign, goverment subsidized steel. And quality will deteriate and prices will increase.

[OBI WAN]

Which steel company?? Mill????

[Mike 92S10]

AK Steel, Ashland Ky. We had a contract due last October and we took major concessions on good faith that the company would make working conditions better and do improvements to our facility. Boy did we ever take it up the ass. Nothing changed, in fact they probably got worse.

[gotswrv]

Nine months watching a screw machine hardly compares to the 30yrs on an assembly line these people you've generalized face. You seem to talk about the tradesmen and make slashes at production, or UAW in general. Having spent time inside these buildings you must know that the trades forces accounts for less than one percent of the average cost of a car and a small percentage of the workforce across the country. Hell if I remember correctly the total cost incurred per car by our plant(labor, light bill, gas, water, gloves, tooling, etc.) was less than $1850 per car for the last quarter of last year. I would like to know who that compares to 76' just to see if the labor is much to blame is you say. (it very well may be?)
I CANNOT disagree that the tradesmen are pathetic. Possibly sickening. But, I would hardly put the entire UAW membership down because of it. I have been in both divisions. There are huge differences in the pay and amount of work done. And while many tradesmen work very hard at slowing everything down, and get way too worked up about who does what, the majority of people, production works in very different ways.

I've been told I get something like $50 an hour with benifits... BS!!! GM averages all these things at total cost. Not Sam's total cost, not working and retired as seperate... The retired portion of these benefits tallies in at what I've been told is %70... %70 of the benefits currently not payed to paychecks is to retirees. Say what you will, when I'm of age there will be NO retirement for me. Don't count there's against me. I do not pay premiums for health care, does that make me bad? I do know the the pay plans Quik-Trip as well as Sprint, and a local car dealer I have worked for, have much better coverages. Co-pay was almost the same.

I do agree that the Union's ways are becoming it's undoing. There are big flaws in the system. At the same time big corporations system's are quite frequently as much to blame. Standardization of pay and rank leaves people fighting to do the least, and in a system created to suppress favoritism, I've never worked anywhere with more!
A great deal of the issues I face are caused from people who have always been together. They grew up together, went to school together, got a job together, and now at age 55-65 they are picking sides against the new guys together. From what you said it was a harsher round of the same game for you. Never being exposed to society past high school, they act like high schoolers and take sides.

If you are aimed solely at the tradesmen in the UAW I should not defend them or myself. We are under worked and overpaid. However, in our defense, our particular plant has been bidding against shops like yours to keep work and most of the time winning. This has worked very well for both parties(not too well for the local shops). This may not have been possible had the plant not taken on a large group of younger people. It is conceivable that left to the "idling generation" Even if the bids were won there would be know one to do the work. As a tradesman I too no longer wish to work here. This is mostly due to my need to grow, and be challenged, not some embedded hatred for the UAW. I'd like to be in a more creative field, not a machine repair/job shop/jig and fixture, guy.

To address quality, spend a little time in a car plant. If there is a way to blame someone it would have to be somewhere in the engineering. I don't know if the money wasn't spent, or the return for it sucked. Even with parts that do not want to go together we have been doing very well, holding our own against the competition.
You may also find the level of cooperation between trades as well as management much better. I have heard stories like your's from people who have transferred. In fact most of these stories come from your region.?. Few were at a car factory. I can surely say that not every place is run like that.

Mexico? They are not happy, not treated well, and not allowed to say so. They are trying to eat, not living anyway we would think of as acceptable.

I still think it is very wrong cast judgment against such a large group using a sample size and time line like yours. As former production worker it is silly to think those people do not earn what they have.

Good day,
Sam

[OBI WAN]

No I am attacking all of the UAW. We here have a large barrage of either still under GM and UAW umbrella operations to enitities that have been sold of to foriegn corperations in order to rid themselves of the UAW and its hold!

I know hundreds of people throughout the western central NY area that work for the UAW, and at least they concede to the facts which I mentioned. Turn the same screws on the same parts for 20 years and get paid well over the average of anyone else in the area doing the same thing. Monkeys, actual monkeys can be trained to do the labors which most these assemblers do at a higher rate for bananas!

Over 1/3rd the total cost of a new UAW built car goes to UAW workers pay, bene's and the whole nine yards. Imagine the price a new one would be if production doubled where it still wouldnt be a 80% total capactiy. Not having to pay triple time and watch workers fit over seniority to work those holidays that wouldnt be needed since production was where it should be.

Oh and I always loved the stories peoples that worked there told me about how some guy pushing a broom outsenioritied him when layoffs came and the guy knew absolutely nothing about what he was gonna do, toilets were his game at $18 and hour!

I stand pat and will not be fooled, I know better. There are a handful of jobs within the US that still need unions to protect workers rights, but should be targeting the US government instead of the plants. These include Steel mills and miners and thats about it. Ones whom really suffer, do **** work, get paid **** wages etc etc etc!

[bvr775]

obi is trying to be nice about this and not attack unions.

I'm not. I hate unions. they make americans look like greedy lazy overpayed jerks. Can onyone tell what % of americans are union? I work in a job were i have put as much as 150hrs in a week on the clock because the union inspectors only work 12 hours a day for 5 days 4 off and make 3 times what we make. We have to pickup their slack. Does anyone know what chinese overtime is? This is where you get a precentage of you salery for every hour over 40 you work(comes out to about 3bux an hour) and the more over you work the less you get payed. This is how I get payed. It sux to put in 150 hrs in one week and only get 300bux more for the OT, but the union guys woun't help out and helped EMO impose a flat rate on the inspection companeys makeing it harder for nonunion inspectors to get fair raises. We cannot go union because the way the outher unions have screwed everything up either. I'm a very good inspector and I can honestly say I'm beter than any union inspector in this area, but because i can't afford to go the Geniva to be trained I cannot be a union inspector. Dosen't seem fair does it.
now you thinck I just showing one shineing example and pigonholeing all unions because of it. I havn't been an inspector my whole life you know. I've worked as contractor for 10 years as a journeyman before i got this permenate job. So i've seen it doesn't matter what you do, your always running fixing simple **** because the union guy who is traned to do it as part of his job says" it's not in his job discription, but I want 80-120k a year to sit on fat ars and make someone else do it for me." This lowers production to a trikle because now i can't do my job because i'm doing some guys job who went to colledge to lean it. Some old guy taught me everything i know on the job.
IS THIS FAIR.

[T Man]

I work in a job were i have put as much as 150hrs in a week on the clock because the union inspectors only work 12 hours a day for 5 days 4 off and make 3 times what we make. We have to pickup their slack.


Ummm, so, you know that there are only 168 hours in a week dont you? You are telling us you only had 18 hours off in a whole week? I think I would find a better job

[bvr775]

yes i know it's aginst osha regs, but what else am I'm going to do to pay over 3g a month in bills. And that's just barely surviveing. click up a map of southeast TX (jefferson county to be exacte) and tell what the magor job employers are in this area(i'll remind houston is over 2 1/2 hours from this area) I'll tell you your either work in the refinerys in some way or you work for target or walmart.
It's not so easy to find a better job when you already have time invested in a companey, a 401k, and are ust to haveing insurnce for 90bux a month. I have a wife and a house I must maintian.

your 19, right? You'll find out soon enough.