Wynjammer #'s

[super67chevy2]

Whats some #'s for the Wynjammer. Whats some gains in hp, torque, and et's?

[blazen]

i have no clue but i'm sure other people do (superchargedzq8). but i'm gonna say welcome to the site. and sorry if this turns your thread to a welcome thread

[94s10]

his old 6 psi kit had a 65 hp increase i believe. the new design should be a little more efficient

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

The new design produces around 70 rwhp @ 6 psi on an otherwise stock 4.3L ('96+). I'm going to be doing a couple dyno runs soon, but mine is NOT a good gauge as to what the kit will produce (I've got a few goodies here and there).

If you look in the Wynjammer section of the Preferred Outside Vendors Forum, you'll see one of the old dyno slips for the Wynjammer that I posted. Disclaimer(s): it was not done on MY truck; it was a previous version of the kit; the test truck was 100% stock; the Wynjammer was running 6 psi; temperature was 10 degrees lower on the Wynjammed run (equates to about 1 hp -- so, 64 rwhp with all conditions being equal); dyno shows a 65 rwhp gain.

All I can offer is my own testimonial: I had a Powedyne running 9 psi, and with ONLY swapping to the Wynjammer I felt an increase -- a "felt" increase must exceed 7-10 psi, so the Jammer was producing at least 7 hp more than my old Powerdyne at 9 psi.

But, to answer your question: you can expect at LEAST (mind you, I said at LEAST, and NOT UP TO) a 65 rwhp gain. ET's are going to depend ENTIRELY upon the individual truck and the other mods done to it. Torque is an unknown (it was not posted on the Wynjammer dyno), but you can expect about the same gain in torque as in hp.

[super67chevy2]

I appreciate the answer. I had a buddy with me and I told him about the Wynjammer S\C and we were both wondering what some numbers would be. Thanks.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

I appreciate the answer. I had a buddy with me and I told him about the Wynjammer S\C and we were both wondering what some numbers would be. Thanks.
No problem. To keep things in perspective: Wynjammer = around 65-70 rwhp at 6 psi NO FMU, 2-3 hour install; Powerdyne = around 70 rwhp at 7 psi WITH FMU, 7-8 hour install; Vortech = around 75 rwhp at 8 psi WITH FMU and drilling into the oil pan, 7-8 hour install.

Similar gains, less boost, no FMU, easy install.

[Waynestowels]

Supercharged-ZQ8

You are one heck of a salesman, LOL!!
(BTW, you "sold" me and I should have one on the way soon, I was able to get in on the group buy:)

Do you have any 0-60 numbers, stock, then S/C?

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Supercharged-ZQ8

You are one heck of a salesman, LOL!!
(BTW, you "sold" me and I should have one on the way soon, I was able to get in on the group buy:)

Do you have any 0-60 numbers, stock, then S/C?
No times yet -- working on that still. . . Will post all relevant info when I have the chance to get some REAL road-time. Race season is starting! But, I'll warn you: I don't race 1/4 mile -- I'm partial to Auto-X.

[ZR1-S10]

How about some more specs? I have a engine sim and would like to know the: Island flow, Impeller speed, Pressure ratio, Internel ratio, and all that stuff.

[yx302]

If all three superchargers are within 1-2 psi of each other, what makes you not need a fmu with the wynjammer?

[OBI WAN]

The factory ECM can handle, and I have always stated between 250-275 flywheel horsepower off its factory tables for MAF readings and the 19 lb and hour injectors!
The problem running a SC on a factory tune its the fact while its pumping more air, its also heated air and the ECM cant deal with that aspect to well and the others use a FMU since they dont want to get involved with tuning. 2nd is a 2 fold fact, the others are lower in effiency so they heat the air more than the wynjammer, this makes a lean condition even more unsafe. Plus every one PSI boost pressure is higher in temp which with the fact there not as effiencent and running 1-2 PSI more will make them 20+ degrees hotter on there outlet temps.

The problem you see with people having problems tuning with a FMU is the fact that when not in WOT,with the FMU trying too boost fuel movement during low speed in boost cruising, the ECM is still trying to maintain a 14.7:1 fuel air mix and is lowering the injector pulse while the FMU increases pressure. Well all this ECM adjusting in closed loop is retained to pick a WOT (PE Stage) tune. YOu see many having rich and they get up into gears, RPM richness, leanness in other areas and the whole nine yards cause they got the ECM so screwed up reading and reacting with this badaid in place it'll never get it right. Al didnt want all this hassle and the people calling day in and out trying to tune something they really without programming couldnt tune.
Powerdyne uses it to keep everything as cheap as possible. A FMU like Powerdynes is a $50 bandaid, $350+ cheaper than a programmer, then they would be in the Vortec realm in price and not sell as many kits due to that fact.

Vortech has to run one! Its outlet temps are the highest of any out there using 190+ degree engine oil to lube there head. Oh Ive heard how effiecent is it etc etc etc. Well you hear others say dont run a Metal intake pipe cause it'll heat soak and heat the intake air up. Well what does a head running over 200 degrees you can't touch do to air passing through?

ATI intercools everything so its 8 or 10 PSI isnt a true number. If that wasnt intercooled it would be more like 9-13 PSI and thats well beyond what 19lb and hour injectors could push with a million pounds of pressure behind it. SO they run progressive FMU's to try to keep it within ECM bounds until higher boost and WOT are hit and then the pressure rises rapidly to the injectors lockup!

[lamerboy]

Vortech has to run one! Its outlet temps are the highest of any out there using 190+ degree engine oil to lube there head. Oh Ive heard how effiecent is it etc etc etc. Well you hear others say dont run a Metal intake pipe cause it'll heat soak and heat the intake air up. Well what does a head running over 200 degrees you can't touch do to air passing through?


Once again youre comparing apples to oranges. Those temps are only evident when way beyond 6 psi - more like 12 psi.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Once again youre comparing apples to oranges. Those temps are only evident when way beyond 6 psi - more like 12 psi.
Not necessarily true. The Vortech is rated for 8-9 psi, at which pressure the AIT is close to 200 degrees. At 12 psi, the temp is closer to 250 degrees (according to theory). And, what temp it runs also depends on how long it has been running -- the longer it has been running, the higher the temps.

[lamerboy]

Theory? Heat soak is heat soak. It doesnt get any hotter after the engine and the engine bay has completely heated up. I've measured it myself. Before being intercooled at 12psi Ive seen a little over 200 degrees in 95 degree desert heat.

At 6psi BEFORE THE INTERCOOLER I read temps of 115 degrees with 65 degree ambient temp.

And AGAIN, you're comparing 9psi to 6psi which in reality is 12psi (200+ degree AIT) at a much higher ambient temp than your test(s).

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

The point is moot, regardless. The power gain is comparable between ALL the blowers, period, end of story. Gains range from 65-70 rwhp through 80 rwhp with boost pressure ranging from 6 psi to 8-9 psi (non-intercooled, in "stock" form).

Picking at various points is not necessary. The intake temp is obviously going to increase as boost increases -- that is the nature of compressed air.

The point is this: raw gains are seen regardless of what blower is used. Having run both the Powerdyne and the Wynjammer and helping a friend with a Vortech, gains from all the kits in stock form are very similar.

The Powerdyne @ 7 psi produced 225 rwhp when combined with a cat-back exhaust, e-fan, ignition, and K&N intake. Stock/baseline was 143 rwhp -- so that is almost an 80 rwhp gain (with other mods) -- with the majority of that gain being the blower. Bumping the boost up to 9 psi made a very slight difference in the "feel" -- so the gain was probably around 5 rwhp (obviously some power loss due to the increased heat caused by the increased compression). Stock form = 70 rwhp @ 7 psi.

The Wynjammer, although I have not had time for a dyno run and am relying upon an actual dyno run performed by Al at Wynjammer in conjunction with a reputable shop, showed a 65 rwhp gain on an older kit. Gains with the current kit are 65-70 rwhp, possibly 75. The test truck produced 136 rwhp when 100% stock and 201 rwhp with only the Wynjammer installed and running 6 psi. Stock form = 65 rwhp (based upon documented evidence) @ 6 psi.

The Vortech, and this is according to Vortech's site, produces 234 rwhp at 8-9 psi, with the disclaimer "*Supercharged horsepower and torque data shown is a calculated estimate based on percentage increases from actual rear wheel hp/tq measurements." I do not know if this is an ACTUAL gain or a calculated gain AT THE STATED BOOST LEVEL. Nor do I know what the baseline run was with the truck in question that Vortech used as a test subject -- probably about the same as most other trucks and in the 140 rwhp range. Stock form = 90 rwhp @ 9 psi. But with no actual documented results.

In any case, the gain is showing to be around 10 hp per 1 psi.

Each kit has its advantages. Each has its disadvantages. Each is worthwhile to install. Each provides a substantial gain. It's all a matter of which one a person wants, and what they plan on doing with it. End of story.

[Hammer]

why would you want to run a supercharger that uses engine oil to lubricate the supercharger? when you can get a sealed unit that doesn't need to be lubricated?

the vortech system uses engine oil to lubricate correct? what is so great about a vortech unit? tell me how it's better than the wyjammer. i would wager that for every 1 benefit the vortech has the jammer has 3.

[Hammer]

Once again youre comparing apples to oranges. Those temps are only evident when way beyond 6 psi - more like 12 psi.

apparently 12psi on a vortech is not equivalent to 12psi on a jammer. how can the intake temperature possibly be lower on the vortech unit?

are trying to tell me that the head runs at the engine oil temp? even if it does, the jammer doesn't use engine oil so it is at an immediate advantage.

you theory about heat soak may be correct sitting still in traffic, but when you are traveling at 30+ mph the vortech certainly is not acting as an engine oil cooler for the engine oil is it? meanwhile the jammer has no preheat occuring AND HAS outside air passing in and around the unit. even sitting still the fan should be cooling it while at the same time the vortech unit would be running at engine oil temp, at a minimum, unless of course you are trying to say that the s/c is acting as a cooler for the oil?

obviously the wynjammer runs colder because it doesn't require an fmu at 6psi, and the vortech does, either the jammer is more efficient and creates less heat and more power with less boost or it creates less power all together. which apparently isn't the case.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

why would you want to run a supercharger that uses engine oil to lubricate the supercharger? when you can get a sealed unit that doesn't need to be lubricated?

the vortech system uses engine oil to lubricate correct? what is so great about a vortech unit? tell me how it's better than the wyjammer. i would wager that for every 1 benefit the vortech has the jammer has 3.
I can play Devil's Advocate on this one. . . The Vortech has a couple advantages BECAUSE it uses engine oil: 1) no internal belt to break (and thus, costly repair charges) 2) no separate gear oil/lubricant to change (and yet ANOTHER thing to keep track of).

Of course, as I've said before, there are also DISadvantages to this as well. The Vortech S/C are good units, overall, and are capable of huge power gains with tweaking, and are the most upgradeable of the S/Cs I've seen. BUT, all told, I still prefer the Wynjammer. . . Fine, the belt may wear and break, but that's about 20 minutes to replace, if that. . .

Don't get me wrong, Hammer -- I'm all for the Jammer, but the Vortech isn't a bad unit -- neither is the Powerdyne. . . It's just that the Wynjammer has a few more advantages (and considering Al has working with other S/C companies, I'd say he knows what works and what works better!).

All I know is that when I figure out a couple things for fuelling issues, I'm going to be going with a little more boost off the Jammer (no more than 9 psi, though). . . Manifold is the main thing -- leaning towards Sam's project (unless AFI is heard from, of course).

[Finkle]

Speaking of the mainfold i gots some news, i was talking to AL (from wynjammer) and he said he and a few ppl are working on a new maifold with 2 extra injectors , i ddint get too much detail on it because he didnt know much about it at the time but he told me to start speardin the word that he was gonna have one out soon!!!
i cant wait wait for al to come out with it, his supercharger +mainfold will be huge :D

[biglouie_underpressure]

seems like someone is getting mixed up...the sds kit uses two extra injectors.I can't see someone builing and intake with two extra injectors,for what?

[lamerboy]

apparently 12psi on a vortech is not equivalent to 12psi on a jammer. how can the intake temperature possibly be lower on the vortech unit?

are trying to tell me that the head runs at the engine oil temp? even if it does, the jammer doesn't use engine oil so it is at an immediate advantage.

you theory about heat soak may be correct sitting still in traffic, but when you are traveling at 30+ mph the vortech certainly is not acting as an engine oil cooler for the engine oil is it? meanwhile the jammer has no preheat occuring AND HAS outside air passing in and around the unit. even sitting still the fan should be cooling it while at the same time the vortech unit would be running at engine oil temp, at a minimum, unless of course you are trying to say that the s/c is acting as a cooler for the oil?

obviously the wynjammer runs colder because it doesn't require an fmu at 6psi, and the vortech does, either the jammer is more efficient and creates less heat and more power with less boost or it creates less power all together. which apparently isn't the case.

You do realize how long the air is inside a compressor when it passes through it right? The temperature of the air before it enters the supercharger and compressing the air is what effects its outlet temps. The air has no time to take any heat away from the supercharger and the amount of oil flowing through the blower is finite. Why do you think a procharger blower only needs 6-9ounces of oil in it? Most of that heat you guys keep referring to is from the gear drive. not the oil.

No supercharger will need an fmu at 6psi on an S10.. Powerdyne doesnt. Besides Vortech doesnt even sell a pulley to run 6psi on an strim. Their base kit is 9psi. Run a Wynjammer at 9psi and you'll need an fmu and the temps will be just as high. The temperature of the head unit is negligable when comparing to the temperature increase due to compressing the air. Again apples to oranges. Youre comparing 6psi on a wynjammer to 9-12psi on a vortech or procharger or even 9-11 psi on a powerdyne just waiting to break its belt.

You wont see over 200 degrees with a vortech or any other blower unless your running more than 9psi or more. As Ive already stated I've only seen temps over 200 degrees at 11+psi with my vortech blower.

To say that a wynjammer is making the same power at 6 psi that a vortech or procharger is making at 9 is ridiculous.

A supercharger is a supercharger.

[lamerboy]

apparently 12psi on a vortech is not equivalent to 12psi on a jammer. how can the intake temperature possibly be lower on the vortech unit?

Whats with all the "apparantly" talk? Back it up with some facts. Everything Ive read about the wynjammer is sotp. No one has taken one to the dyno (which doesnt mean much) or taken it to the track on a mostly stock truck. Or stuck a thermocouple/AIT after the blower outlet and logged it. Or tried to run more than 6psi on a relatively STOCK truck. Its all been just "yeah it feels better" being taken as gospel.

[Joe]

a super charger is not just a super charger, You are all forgeting the most important factor, efficiancy is they key. there are so many variable, like the head unit ratio, over how many rpms, and diameter of the pulleys all play a factor in the element of forced induction. It seems to me that alot of you guys are newbee's at all of this stuff and need to stop making assumptions.
^psi is a huge gain over any stock vehicle hands down. Some people are just lokking for a little extra kick, and thats exactly what you will get. Hence, its a base kit. Trust me, speed is addicting, after 200 miles you will be used to it and want more. Thats why I just order gears. My granny 3:08's gotta go. Ordered me a set of richmond 3:73's.
Nick

[94s10]

i think he was meaning to say something along the lines of 6 psi is 6 psi no matter what blower you have. in this sense blower efficiencies and all that dont really matter, if both blowers are pushing the same psi at the same rpm with similar IAT's the power increase wont be much different between the 2, especially at only 6 psi.


i think thats what he was trying to say anyways lol

[03 Rado]

Thats not even close to being true. And SC isnt a positive displaced air mover, when a SC impeller creates boost it can only process so much air per rev versus the amount the impeller can actually move. 100% of the air intook does not get expelled into making boost. That is its efficiency and also is heat generation number.
Remember in school how they explained kinetic energy, they used a example of rubbing your hands together. This friction created heat within your palms? Air is getting the same treatment within the impeller area of the SC, what doesnt expel the first time gets pushed around again and again before it actually exits and heat is generated higher because of it. Air itself under positive 100% compression itself goes through this kinetic heating, but its a constant amount of heat generated per amount of compression. A SC at 70% efficient while have higher temps than a 80% and so on. The I saw mentioned about the Vortec unit not generating its own heat to add to the scenerio. Horsesh*t, the air that doesnt get expelled on the first, second or even third time and more is heat soaking the 200+ degree temperatures the motor oilhas the SC head heated to. Take 80 degree ambient air, compress it, dont expel it,let it heat soak higher to what and intake charge of ambient 150+ degrees is, recompress it, create more kinetic heat and what do you have?
Even if all SC heads had the same efficiency, the Vortec head would generate more heat that any other just due to this longer time within the SC head heat soaking. You guys seem to have this notion that speed in which the air travels is null in picking up heat which is not true. Yes the slower it moves the more it'll heat soak, but air increases temperatures in fractions of a second once it contacts a heat source.
Go look at a roots chiller unit. Mounts under the blower and chills the blower body and also the air charge as it passes through the chiller itself and this is positive displacement compression, very fast compared to a SC and manages to keep air temps down over 30 degrees in and area which is much shorter and much faster air movement!

[Joe]

thank you, thats EXACTLY what I am refering to.
Execpt for the part about how the slower the head unit spins the hotter the air is, That staement is false, the more air you compress in a given space the hotter it becomes, factor in air intake on that equation, therefor the faster the unit spins, the more air movement being compressed in a confined space=hotter charge. But other than that You guys get the Idea.
Nick

[94s10]

until someone gets some wynjammer IAT's at 9 psi equal to the vortech its all just words. i am willing to bet it does run cooler but it needs to be backed up with solid evidence. especially since no one has run the wynjammer above 6 psi yet on a somewhat stock motor.

[Maxx]

What about biglouie? Isn't he running 10 or something? Or am i mistaken?

[94s10]

yeah but his motor is hardly stock

[LEADFOOT]

Ok heres my 2cents. I don't know much about this **** but here we go. People are comaring 10 psi kits on a stock motor. How do you run 10 psi boost on a stock motor. I thought you had to have forged pistons and atleast a bigger cam, and bigger injectors to add more fuel, so how is the 10 psi possible (and keep it safe) on a stock motor. Can't run 10 psi on stock motor or thats what everybody would be buying instead of the 6 psi. A few weeks ago supercharged-ZQ8 and biglouie were the only ones with the wynjammer. When everyone that was lucky enough to get one on the group buy gets it installed and has a chance to take it to the strip and the dyno i"m sure they will post the numbers.

One other thing that comes to mind about the wynjammer is the intake tube. It seems to be about 5' (feet) shorter than the powerdyne. I saw a pic awhile back of the powerdyne installed on a s10 and thought, what the hell is up with all that tube. My 2 cents is that the tube is were you loose some boost. All that tube under the hood, the air has to travel through all the hot ass tube, so before it even gets to the head unit it has increased in temp and then increases again after the head unit and then goes thru more tube thats hot as hell to get to the the other side of the motor.Just by looking at the 2 kits (wynjammer and powerdyne) installed on a s10 and seeing that the powerdyne(100lbs kit) weighs about 75lbs more than the wynjammer(25 lbs kit) and has what looks like 5' more tubing, I'd take the wynjammer in a heartbeat.

And if one guy says I had the powerdyne installed with a 9 psi pulley and then put the wynjammer on with a 6 psi pulley and says "holly **** it pulls alot more". I"m not gonna waste my money on the powerdyne, I don't care if he can or can't show me any numbers. That statement in itself is enough for me.

[03 Rado]

Ok heres my 2cents. I don't know much about this **** but here we go. People are comaring 10 psi kits on a stock motor. How do you run 10 psi boost on a stock motor. I thought you had to have forged pistons and atleast a bigger cam, and bigger injectors to add more fuel, so how is the 10 psi possible (and keep it safe) on a stock motor. Can't run 10 psi on stock motor or thats what everybody would be buying instead of the 6 psi. A few weeks ago supercharged-ZQ8 and biglouie were the only ones with the wynjammer. When everyone that was lucky enough to get one on the group buy gets it installed and has a chance to take it to the strip and the dyno i"m sure they will post the numbers.

One other thing that comes to mind about the wynjammer is the intake tube. It seems to be about 5' (feet) shorter than the powerdyne. I saw a pic awhile back of the powerdyne installed on a s10 and thought, what the hell is up with all that tube. My 2 cents is that the tube is were you loose some boost. All that tube under the hood, the air has to travel through all the hot ass tube, so before it even gets to the head unit it has increased in temp and then increases again after the head unit and then goes thru more tube thats hot as hell to get to the the other side of the motor.Just by looking at the 2 kits (wynjammer and powerdyne) installed on a s10 and seeing that the powerdyne(100lbs kit) weighs about 75lbs more than the wynjammer(25 lbs kit) and has what looks like 5' more tubing, I'd take the wynjammer in a heartbeat.

And if one guy says I had the powerdyne installed with a 9 psi pulley and then put the wynjammer on with a 6 psi pulley and says "holly **** it pulls alot more". I"m not gonna waste my money on the powerdyne, I don't care if he can or can't show me any numbers. That statement in itself is enough for me.

You can run 10 PSI on a stock motor if your brains fail to see why you shouldnt! For many, many, many years now boost manufacturers have argued to what point boost is relatively safe and agreed that 5 PSI is fine. But thats with positive displaced units where they see boost all the time. For SC's a cut-off was never agreed upon by the manufacturers, but most will suggest this same area of 5-7 PSI or so since its limited how long its at that pressure. Over that your creating alot of heat no matter what the kit and tuning is a very serious business!

Yup the longer the tube is, larger in diameter etc, the more boost is lost or has to overcome!

Vortec is going to be a higher output temp no matter what anyone says with whatever. The head and oil combo, just isnt gonna allow lower temps no matter how efficient it may be making boost.

Yeah, the numbers game.
Isnt this the internet??? I bet I could get everyone that owns the same type of anything that is hard core set in what they have to post numbers up to prove that fact! Hell the internet is full of SC users that dont have anything more than a Con Air they play with everyday! Look my time slips dont lie, well first off are they yours or did you borrow them! My GTECH says this, comeon, you cant believe half whats on boards let alone S boards where lies fly like sand in the wind!

[Joe]

well like I siad, I have had mine for 2 MONTHS ,not a week,. Second of all I have been working with engines for many years, there is a bunch of ratio and formulas that are equated in with forced induction. , I know for a fact that mine added a **** load of horse power from stock, How many or you spin your tire 1st, 2nd, and bark hard into 3rd, with posi, RUNNING 3:08's??????????????? GRANNY GEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats all I have to say.
Oh yeah by the way, The vortec kit that is running 9 psi only puts out roughly seven psi on the guage, Its a 9 LBS pulley but it is intercooled, RESTRICTION. So it puts out a more efficant 7 psi. You guys need to do some more home work.
Nick

[94s10]

the vortech kit is not intercooled, maybe you should do your homework...

like i said, its nice to have testimonials from people who say it added a **** load of horse power or whatever, but that stating the obvious. it would be nice to have some measured numbers, but since we are going to have alot more wynjammed members here within the next week, i trust we will start to see some

[03 Rado]

If you havent figured it out yet the Lame boy is from somewhere else trying to sow his oats on this particular site to make a sense of feel better. He cant decided how much boost with what temp he has on his Con Air and they dont make pullies per every obtainable boost number he tries to reference. A ald with this much trouble trying to back support his backside couldnt achieve fuel delivery he would then need to run 11-12 PSI.
Now I can see it happening, someone goes to a **** dyno with a **** operator and puts down 175 h.p. and posts it thinking he has done some miracles, but a child such as this would hammer the hell outta something that is so far conscrewed as being not accurate it is not funny. Dyno's only can measure a base and a gain without much accuracy to the truth. Too many varibles to even conceive how unaccurate one can be. Were talking 80 h.p. swings from truth, then you add track times which I can say with 100% belief that most dont have a base number to begin with to show before and after results.Even track times themselves dont prove anything unless you run multiple times on multiple occasions under a wide array of conditions and then take averages across the boards on both before mod and after mod runs.
I was invited to check this board out and I always shied away from the S related series boards because its so much like the tuner boards, more bull than anything else. I invite you all to check on fullsize sites, f body boards and the likes to see how real the world is! You guys got something simple, works very well by the sounds of it, reasonably priced, only to have those jealous they spent so much and wont be as happy as you will be and have to put up with it!

[94s10]

i know where hes from i'm not stupid.

and if you havent figured it out yet i'm not disagreeing with you at all. its easy for people to lie on these boards about everything, not just dyno numbers and track times. and its not only s-series boards. it depends on where the info is coming from, what their status is on this board. i would trust something posted by big louie or s/c-zq8 as others would i am sure. especially s/c-zq8 cause he is the only one too run 2 different kits on the same truck, and is the only one qualified to give a seat of the pants review on the 2 different superchargers

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

i know where hes from i'm not stupid.

and if you havent figured it out yet i'm not disagreeing with you at all. its easy for people to lie on these boards about everything, not just dyno numbers and track times. and its not only s-series boards. it depends on where the info is coming from, what their status is on this board. i would trust something posted by big louie or s/c-zq8 as others would i am sure. especially s/c-zq8 cause he is the only one too run 2 different kits on the same truck, and is the only one qualified to give a seat of the pants review on the 2 different superchargers
Thank you for the vote of confidence.

I am, by no means, an expert with forced induction -- I only know what I've experienced. But, I've run several 6-71s, a couple 8-71s, several centrifugal, and a Holley 144 cid. Of course, NOT on an S-Series -- but on various other vehicles. I can say this with a fair amount of certainty: all blowers are NOT created equally. And, it isn't just the blower head that factors in, either. The entire setup is relevant. Longer runs or tubing (both intake and discharge), belt routing, number of belts, kit composition (materials from which it is made), etc. -- ALL of these play a HUGE part in power. I myself have NOT run a Vortech on my own truck, but I have a close friend that HAS. I personally installed it for him and have driven it. He refuses to join any of the boards (he doesn't even own a computer. . . What can I say, he's a bit in the Dark Ages -- and admits it). The truck is a '99 Sonoma and has only headers and a cat-back kit aside from the Vortech. Now, before this gets going TOO far: the Vortech is a good kit, I've never said anything to the contrary. It has its issues, but it is still a good kit and produces the gains that Vortech advertises. The Powerdyne is also a good kit -- I ran mine for THREE (trouble-free) years and was very happy with it. I wanted a change, so I went with the Wynjammer kit. I looked over the Vortech kit, the Powerdyne kit, and the Wynjammer kit. I noticed several things that I would NOT do, if I were to design a kit of my own, with the Powerdyne and the Vortech. These weren't necessarily bad things, just things I myself would not do. When I looked at the Wynjammer I noticed a number of those things lacking. I researched into it frontward and backward for 8 months before I took the plunge. I haven't regretted it. Same, if not more, power with less boost. It has a bit to do with the head itself, but even more to do with the OVERALL makeup of the kit.

Yes, Lamerboy is s10rz350 from S10F and SSF. He has good ideas and knows, for the most part, what he is talking about -- but EVERYONE always has more they can learn.

Here's an example of how things and loyalties change: a couple years ago, the Mach Performance S/C kit was the cat's ass as far as what everyone wanted and recommended. Now, I don't know of too many people that would touch it with a ten-foot pole -- for various reasons. Powerdyne was the bottom of the barrel -- called "crap" by many -- now it has stepped up a notch in esteem. Rather humorous, if you ask me -- the quality of the kit and the design haven't changed, just the opinion of it. I've always been happy with mine -- "crap" though it was. I swapped out for a Wynjammer -- and BECAUSE it is the newest of the kits, of course people (and people, by and large, are unwelcoming to NEW things) are going to call it "crap" even though they know nothing about it.

Hmm. . . Al, if my memory serves me correctly, has designed kits for Powerdyne, Vortech, and Paxton -- so I think he has an idea what he's doing. . . He's been in this field for longer than a lot of us have been alive. Wouldn't it stand to reason that he'd remove all the flaws he saw in the other kits and improve upon other things? Makes sense to me -- and it seems that he has.

I am NOT affiliated with Wynjammer, nor do I receive any compensation (monetary or otherwise) from Wynjammer -- I just feel that it is one of the best kits available, and am willing to post my experiences with it. I could always just do my own thing, go my own way, and let people figure stuff out for themselves -- but I'm not like that.

A supercharger IS a supercharger -- in ONE big respect: ANY kit you put on a vehicle is going to give the single BIGGEST power gain of any mod -- it's just a matter of how big and how much. The Jammer provides a power increase comparable to both the Powerdyne and the Vortech kits -- but with less boost and less stress on the motor. Why? Efficiency, plain and simple. Efficiency of the head and efficiency of the overall kit, period.

Arguing theory is fine and dandy, but everything comes out in the wash. . . Powerdyne at 7 psi is good for 70 rwhp -- that's 10 hp per psi. The Jammer, and this is going by a dyno on an older version of the kit (which I am told has been improved upon), provided 65 rwhp at 6 psi -- that's darn close to 11 hp per psi. . . If what I am told is correct, then the newer kits produce 70 rwhp at 6 psi -- that's darn close to 12 hp per psi. Hmm. . . NOT more efficient? I'm still doubting how it CAN'T be, if it produces more hp per psi.

But, at any rate, the point is moot. Even with an FMU (which is not an adequate OR accurate means of fuel delivery), the stock injectors are only good for a sustained 275 hp. Why tune with an add-on unit when you can tune with the ECM and still run the injectors within their tolerances. An FMU supplies more fuel by adding pressure, but the pulse remains stock -- and increases the risk of pinning the injectors open. The tune that comes with the Wynjammer provides more fuel by adjusting the pulse, but keeping pressure within what the injectors can stand. More pressure provides more fuel, but so does a longer spurt -- and the longer spurt won't eventually KILL the injectors.

Either way, I'm done arguing the point. Some prefer the Vortech, some prefer the Powerdyne -- and yet others prefer the Wynjammer. I would fall into the third category. Whatever the choice, it's better than being naturally-aspirated!

[03 Rado]

i know where hes from i'm not stupid.

and if you havent figured it out yet i'm not disagreeing with you at all. its easy for people to lie on these boards about everything, not just dyno numbers and track times. and its not only s-series boards. it depends on where the info is coming from, what their status is on this board. i would trust something posted by big louie or s/c-zq8 as others would i am sure. especially s/c-zq8 cause he is the only one too run 2 different kits on the same truck, and is the only one qualified to give a seat of the pants review on the 2 different superchargers

I didnt say you were both either stupid or disagreeing with my perspective. This board is new from my understanding but from another board that was around previously and I've never knew either existed. But I have been to the larger S-Series boards where lies/mistruths in the SC/Turbo sections are rampant. Wih all the reading I've done these so-called experts in theory of SC's and Turbos have yet to to actually get theres to run consistantly for more than a few months, if there running even at all. But yet they can attack something they do not know and call out liars amoungst the people not running something they are will little troubles etc and then start this numbers game as there way of positive proof something is as good at people say it is.

Has anyone ever done the math I've read over with these numbers, I have and they dont add up nor come even remotely close to real life. Trucks from reg cabs to extendeds which weight 400-800 pounds different and have the heavier trucks outrunning the lighter ones. Trucks that cant mustard under mid 15's stock on a good day, with there expertise get them into the low 13's which would suggest over 200 rear wheel horse power added, yet there running boost amounts that dont equate with that. 2 seconds would suggest nearly 225-250 horsepower added and 10 psi intercooled with headers and a cam would yield 175 horsepower if you were lucky. There running times that brand new Z06 Corvettes run which dont have the traction trouble like a pickup would have, better gear ratios for doing such and over 300 horsepower hitting the rear wheels easily. I've seen at F body boards guys with serious tuning knowledge along with years of motor building taking F-bodies which run 14's stock, and slip them into the high 12's adding these Vortec kits, intercoolers and the likes. There biggest complaint is the fact outlet temps are extremely higher then a comparable FRIEND on the board running a ATI kit, Paxton kit and also have more impeller bearing failures. Thats my point, you go to those boards and even though each has his own particular liking of something, affordability and so on, there honest, help each other out even though its something against there grain. I saw in a series of posts at the S10 Forum site someone wanting to use larger metal tube than the scroll output size and no one with half a brain chimmed in to say NO, but yet another just a few topics under him going on something someone else he didnt seem to like, reduced his tubing and found 4 PSI more boost that was lost, did he chime in? Its like everything is a big secret, here wate your money, will laugh and maybe tell you later and I'm seeing that with Lamer Child! You got a bunch of guys, all on the same plan discussing and ideals, sharing information and discussing some good ideas and then allow Lamer Child to disrupt a perfectly good discussion with his crap. Where is the sense in it allowing such, where is the moderator, he is not debating, he is detracting, negative which I'm doing against him now!

[94s10]

are you refering to JDB and badnoma at s10forum running in the 12's and low 13's respectively with the ATI kit?

[lamerboy]

Im disrupting a perfectly good discussion with crap? Call me Lamer Child all you want all it does is show who the basher is.
I havent seen one single piece of evidence that a wynjammer is anymore efficient than any other blower. Simple. Prove me wrong with some facts.

Do the math and show me how much of a temp difference there is between 80% adiabatic efficiency at 6psi and 70% adiabatic efficiency at 6psi. Its much much less than you might think. If no one is capable of figuring it out I will share my results.

I'm having no problem supplying enough fuel with the poppet injectors and an fmu. It only takes about 85-90 psi of fuel pressure no detonation and no timing taken out on 91 octance. Thats at 11-12psi. Course my truck is intercooled so it only requires more fuel than those running non intercooled depending on how much timing you have to take out.

Just for the haters: my truck has 50,000 miles on it with the vortech blower. Around 15,000 of which were non intercooled. I've ran it with both the old style poppet injectors and the new style multech II injectors. Ive used the stock vortech fmu, the procharger fmu (bought through mach} and a cartech 2025. I use an LM1 wideband for a/f ratios and the truck has gone 8.715 in the 1/8 with a 1.8 60 foot. Stock motor, with full exhaust and a 3000rpm stall.

Ive never said a Vortech blower is better than a Wynjammer. I'm only calling out these claims that a wynjammer is better than any other blower due to efficiency.

[lamerboy]

even better. tell us how much difference in cfm-lbs/m-gm/sec there is at 6psi with 80% adiabatic efficiency and 6 psi with 70% adiabatic efficiency on our 262.

[LEADFOOT]

You can run 10 PSI on a stock motor if your brains fail to see why you shouldnt! For many, many, many years now boost manufacturers have argued to what point boost is relatively safe and agreed that 5 PSI is fine. But thats with positive displaced units where they see boost all the time. For SC's a cut-off was never agreed upon by the manufacturers, but most will suggest this same area of 5-7 PSI or so since its limited how long its at that pressure. Over that your creating alot of heat no matter what the kit and tuning is a very serious business!

Yup the longer the tube is, larger in diameter etc, the more boost is lost or has to overcome!

Vortec is going to be a higher output temp no matter what anyone says with whatever. The head and oil combo, just isnt gonna allow lower temps no matter how efficient it may be making boost.

Yeah, the numbers game.
Isnt this the internet??? I bet I could get everyone that owns the same type of anything that is hard core set in what they have to post numbers up to prove that fact! Hell the internet is full of SC users that dont have anything more than a Con Air they play with everyday! Look my time slips dont lie, well first off are they yours or did you borrow them! My GTECH says this, comeon, you cant believe half whats on boards let alone S boards where lies fly like sand in the wind!
So is that a smart ass comment, you calling me stupid. Please clarify because I don't understand.
I said I didn't know much about this stuff and asked several people (just like I stated in my post that you quoted) what the highest boost is that I could run (safely) with a stock motor. I don't recall them saying, sure slap on a 10 psi s/c kit you should be fine. So what your saying is that I can tell my friend that has a bone stock s10 with the 4.3L V6 that its ok to get a s/c 10 psi kit and slap it on and have a blast, right?
I don't mean to come off as being rude but you don't have to make a smart ass comment to my post and call me stupid. A simple correction for someone that was told differently would have been fine.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not one to be rude and call anybody out or get nasty with anyone, but I feel that comment wasn't necessary. I could understand if I said you all are a bunch of dumb asses, you can't run 10 psi on a stock motor. BUT thats not what I said, I was merely relating to something that I understood was that way, coming from what other people has told me.

[biglouie_underpressure]

even better. tell us how much difference in cfm-lbs/m-gm/sec there is at 6psi with 80% adiabatic efficiency and 6 psi with 70% adiabatic efficiency on our 262.
here we go again...

[03 Rado]

here we go again...

Aint it the truth. I guess he now thinks he is a math genius.

No Leadfoot, it was not directed toward you, just I went to a sarcastical approach for Lame Childs sake.

If you compress air 100% efficient, with no outside interferance you see roughly a 9 degree rise in temp per one pound boost according the Boyles Gas Law.
Every 5% drop in efficiency is going to raise the temp another 9 degree roughly.

Heat soak issues will change the above up to another 50% on top of the above. This is where you dont want a metal bonnet, motor oil SC head lubes etc because you'll be at the 50% increase end on top of the efficiency problems you allready have.

One SC could be 90% efficient at 6PSI. 6x9=54+ (10/2x9)= 72 degrees

The other could be 75% efficient at 6 PSI. 6x9=54+ (25/5x9)= 99 Degrees

That using old school NA that says 10 degrees is one horsepower allready stands 2.7 horsepower less. But under forced air 02 content due to expansion and timing loses that will couple with that, double-triple it at least. Yeahs its only 8 horsepower for those nit picking to back there setup, up, but the added heat also does a higher amount damage to the longevity of the motor. I didnt even add in the heat soak numbers, but you can!! SC example #1 has all plastic tube and uses either no oil of self contained, it'll be closer to a 15% increas in temperature. Exampls #2 uses motor oil and metal tubes, bonnet etc and will be near the 50% increase on top of the eff. game.

[Maximus]

I've seen at F body boards guys with serious tuning knowledge along with years of motor building taking F-bodies which run 14's stock, and slip them into the high 12's adding these Vortec kits, intercoolers and the likes. These 14 second F-bodies must be early LT1 automatics or older.I am a member of several F body boards but frequent LS2.com the most.I don't however look in the forced induction forums much at all.But there are very few 14 second LS1 F-bodies there unless they are having problems.But they like ALL automotive boards do have the usual people who lie about what their ride can and can't do.They are human and their are plenty of bull****ters every were you go.I know very little about superchargers and turbochargers or what they can or can't do.So I won't even enter that debate because it's just not my territory.But this senseless arguing over which one is the best or worst is childish and needs to end.I mean come on people we are all friends here and can have a conversation about different products with out getting out of hand.I know people have a certain amount of brand loyalty but it doesn't need to become a my toy is better than yours debate.If this doesn't stop and go back to a friendly talk about the Wynjammer like the thread starter intended it I will lock it up.If you have nothing nice to say then talk about big hooters.That way there is no wrong answer lol.

[03 Rado]

36-38 DD's, enough said!

[Maximus]

Hell Yeah!!!

[Joe]

well that seems kind of one sided to shut down a topic because not everyone likes a wynjammer. I have one, but I also like to hear what everyone'S OPINION is, whether it be good or bad, Thats the point of a topic, and FREE SPEECH, dont ever pretend to play GOD. , If its not what you like to read, than move on, SHUT IT DOWN IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE IMMATURE AND CALL EACH OTHER NAMES< but for gods sakes, not because some one doesnt agree with you.
Nick

[Maximus]

First off you show me one statement in my response that said I would shut it down because someone might not like Wynjammer or not agreeing with me.I said VERY plainly that But this senseless arguing over which one is the best or worst is childish and needs to end which says nothing of closing it over a Wynjammer or for not agreeing with me.

[LEADFOOT]

No Leadfoot, it was not directed toward you, just I went to a sarcastical approach for Lame Childs sake.Ok, no problem. Just thought I was being called out as the stupid one.

[Waynestowels]

I have no idea which is "better".
I purchase the Wynjammer for several reasons after spending months "investigating" super chargers and which would best fit "My" needs...

1- I was interested in an easy installation.
It came in the box already put together and, for the most part, all I will have to do is bolt it in and program the computor with the included programmer.
Wynjammer appears to be a very easy install, although I have not had time to start the installation, however, that was one of my main reasons I chose this model

2- Bolt in using a stock motor was another that was high on my priority list as well as upgradable, just bolt it on and go without the need for other modifications.

3- Customer service/tech support. Al Martin is not only the manufacturer, but the designer, shipper, etc, etc.
He is very easy to get in contact with, knows the S/C inside and out and very helpfull and can answer ANY question I might have.

4- Fast shipping

5- Reasonable price and with the group purchase discount, free shipping..., IMO it was a steal!!

Now, that was my reasoning for the purchase..., I realize there are many other S/C's available that meet some of the above, however, the Wynjammer met all "My" needs, especially the ease of installation since I am not a "real" mechanic, although I can bolt on stuff, LOL!!

I do not plan on using it for racing, etc, but just wanted a little more power for highway passing plus gas milage, the Wynjammer is not a lot more $$$ than a set of good ceramic headers, y-pipe, K&N FIPK, Hypertech Programmer, TB spacer, and the other usual bolts on's, but more power.

If I planned to use one for racing, I would probably went another direction, however, the Wynjammer met all of my main concerns for what I planned to use it for.

No sense arguing over which is better, everyone has different wants and needs, if another brand fit what you wanted better, then the S/C you have is better for you:)

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Everyone has their right to debate and to state their opinions. I like the Wynjammer better than the other kits I've dealt with, but that is simply my OPINION and nothing more. I have also said that both the Vortech and the Powerdyne are good kits. I see some inefficiencies in their designs, but I will NOT say either is a bad kit. Both are established and have produced proven power gains.

No, Leadfoot -- I do not believe anyone has directed comments toward you. I understand where you are coming from -- I too have seen the "10 psi" figure used. I, personally, wouldn't push it to that limit, but I have heard it is within tolerance. As far as my own experience goes, I had my Powerdyne pushing 9 psi -- and that's as far as I wish to go, no matter what blower I'm using. I've seen figures vary from 6 psi all the way up to 14 psi -- on depends on who you ask. No one seems to have a definitive answer.

[lamerboy]

Aint it the truth. I guess he now thinks he is a math genius..

Whether or not I'm a math genius has nothing to do with it.

No Leadfoot, it was not directed toward you, just I went to a sarcastical approach for Lame Childs sake.

Again I dont see how this adds anything to the "discussion". Except that youre the one acting like a child.

If you compress air 100% efficient, with no outside interferance you see roughly a 9 degree rise in temp per one pound boost according the Boyles Gas Law.

This maybe very well true but it doesnt apply to this situation since no supercharger is 100% efficient.


Every 5% drop in efficiency is going to raise the temp another 9 degree roughly.

Actually the air going into the blower is already "heat soaked" its not going to get any hotter once the air is compressed (unless intercooled) which is why when calculating engine airflow requirements for a turbo/supercharger you should only be concerned with the air temp going in.


Heat soak issues will change the above up to another 50% on top of the above. This is where you dont want a metal bonnet, motor oil SC head lubes etc because you'll be at the 50% increase end on top of the efficiency problems you allready have.

So you think that under hood temps of 180 degrees are going to be any lower with a wynjammer? Under hood temps are created by the temperature of the engine and the amount of airflow under the hood.

One SC could be 90% efficient at 6PSI. 6x9=54+ (10/2x9)= 72 degrees

The other could be 75% efficient at 6 PSI. 6x9=54+ (25/5x9)= 99 Degrees

Actually there is alot more involved than that.. Its more like 64 degrees rise in temp at 6psi and with 85 degree inlet temps (for example sake) which would be 149 degrees F ideal outlet temp at 85% adiabatic efficiency.
At 75% adiabatic efficiency 6psi 85 degree inlet temps you're looking at a 73 degree rise in outlet temp or 158 degrees actual outlet temp. so between 85% adiabatic efficiency and 75% adiabatic efficiency you'll see a difference of 9 degrees no matter what the inlet temp is and no matter what the heat soaked under hood temps are. Since on the same vehicle underhood temps (inlet temps) will be the same.


That using old school NA that says 10 degrees is one horsepower allready stands 2.7 horsepower less. But under forced air 02 content due to expansion and timing loses that will couple with that, double-triple it at least. Yeahs its only 8 horsepower for those nit picking to back there setup, up, but the added heat also does a higher amount damage to the longevity of the motor. I didnt even add in the heat soak numbers, but you can!! SC example #1 has all plastic tube and uses either no oil of self contained, it'll be closer to a 15% increas in temperature. Exampls #2 uses motor oil and metal tubes, bonnet etc and will be near the 50% increase on top of the eff. game.

You are completely making up numbers with no factual infomation what so ever. I find it interesting that you believe a 190degree engine has less of an effect to air exiting the supercharger than the temp of the supercharger itself which is going to be the same temperature as the engine due to heatsoak which COMES FROM THE ENGINE.

The air is already heatsoaked entering the blower. It doesnt get hotter after the blower unless your running very low boost or you are intercooling the air and it travels a long distance after the intercooler before entering the TB.

Go ahead do the math yourself. I'll paste my math up here if you want.
All the equations are right here:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbotech/main.htm

[Sparky2263]

Lamerboy has done his homework. Very good post.

Here's my question. Who are you and what do you do? There is no info in your profile.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Not to add more fuel to the fire, but. . .

1) turbos are a different animal than S/Cs -- yes, they work on a similar principle, but the specifics are different. Turbos have much higher outlets temps (in most cases) than S/Cs, are more efficient (in that they require less hp to "spool"), and are generally harder to tune due to the exponential increase in boost. But, yes, they ARE forced induction and the basic principles are similar -- but not the same.

2) Lower boost = lower discharge temps; higher boost = higher discharge temps. Why? When air is compressed it heats up -- the more it is compressed, the more it heats up.

Air is not necessarily already heat-soaked when it enters the blower -- it depends on where the filter is located. If the filter is located near an inlet for ambient air (behind the headlight, in a cowl, below the fender-well, under the bumper, etc), then what the underhood temps might be is irrelevant. If, however, the filter is located where there is little or no ambient air, THEN it is heat-soaked. Even if the engine runs at 190+ degrees, than doesn't factor in to what the air intake temperature is unless that is the ONLY air the S/C can pull in -- which is NOT often the case.

Also, heat-soak is not something that applies to the actual air -- that is a term that applies to the STUFF under the hood. If the tube that the air runs through is heat-soaked (usually because it runs a long distance under the hood, often right OVER the engine), then the air WILL absorb a degree of heat -- it's simply a matter of kinetics. Also, the design of the impeller WILL play an important part. The more efficient the impeller, the more air it will not only grab, but expel (as 03 Rado pointed out). Not only this, but also (and I am going exclusively on what I was relayed by a couple different sources) if the impeller is designed properly, the impeller cools itself with the air going into it.

Where there seems to be some confusion (and that is all that it is: confusion) is how one S/C can be more efficient than another. Again: head design. The Vortech is gear-driven -- which is metal-to-metal contact, which generates a lot of heat. This gear-drive requires some form of lubrication/cooling -- in the form of engine oil or gear oil (in the case of the ATI heads). The Powerdyne uses an internal cog-belt -- there is no metal-to-metal contact. The belt runs between the input shaft (the external pulley) and the impeller shaft. This produces less heat within the head itself -- but because there still IS some form of non-ventilated contact and movement, there is still an amount of heat generated. The Wynjammer head is ONLY the impeller -- the cog belt is EXTERNAL to the head itself -- no metal-to-metal contact, and no input shaft movement. With the Powerdyne heat is generated by the movement of the input shaft (in the enclosed space of the head unit) as well as by the compression of the air. With the Wynjammer, the input shaft is external -- the only movement inside the actual head is the impeller itself, and with the proper bearings, very little heat is generated. since there are no additional parts/movement inside the head, the temp of the head is greatly reduced -- and since the temp of the head itself is lower, the temp of the air passing through that head will also be lower.

Think on this: the impeller of the Wynjammer is LARGER than the impeller of the Powerdyne, but yet the head itself is smaller. How is that? Because the input shaft (the shaft that is connected to the serpentine belt) is NOT CONTAINED in the Wynjammer. Since it is not contained, there isn't the extra heat of those additional parts, and thus the air temp is logically (and realistically) lower. Not only are there less moving parts, but there is less METAL CASING to the head itself -- and remember, metal retains heat. So, a lighter casing, less moving parts, and no gear-to-gear contact -- this is what is meant by efficiency. The ENTIRE Jammer kit weighs as much as just the Powerdyne HEAD -- then add the extra tubing, the two-piece bracket, etc. and you have more weight and more STUFF that can absorb and retain heat.

Again, I've said it before, and I will say it again: not all S/Cs are created equally. Now, this is not to say that one is necessarily better than another -- they all have their own inherent advantages and disadvantages, no matter what. All three of the kits have their merits and all three are good kits.

Whatever the case may be, theory works as far as it goes, but there are limitations to what theory can discover and solve. I know a lot of people are anxious to see (for what they're worth) some dyno figures on the Wynjammer -- well, there is only one for the 4.3 right now -- and that is for an older version of the kit. I, myself, have not had time to get to a dyno (work, classes, family and other obligations) -- I'm sorry, but it just hasn't been on my Priority List. Of course, mine has more than just the blower in place, so it isn't an accurate gauge. And, for what it's worth, dynos can be "fixed" to read whatever you want them to read. If you go by the old "rule of thumb" for boost, you can expect around 60 rwhp out of 6 psi (10 hp per 1 psi) -- which is a little lower than what you actually get. And lastly, I don't know what kind of power mine produces as of this moment in time -- nor do I really care what it's producing, at least in terms of sheer hp.

[Sparky2263]

Excellent info Super. I'll throw my 2 cents in.

I see LOTS of blower installs. I personally don't do anything but N/A due to the nature of my racing but have installed a few and see the results of many. The Wynjammer is the EASIEST install, period. Yet, it also yields the lowest rwhp of those mentioned. By how much? As Super said, dyno's can be rigged (re: Baro pressure input) to read anything. Saw a guy with some extraordinary hp numbers and then noticed on his dyno sheet 26.9" Hg. Well, when corrected to 29.92 of course they're gonna look good. I'd say the Wynjammer is short about 10-30 horsepower. Price and installation ease will probably make that negligible.

Now, if I WAS gonna supercharge it and spend the money? Roots baby, and put all 3 to shame.

[94s10]

how do we know the wynjammer puts down the lowest rwhp though?

[T Man]

well that seems kind of one sided to shut down a topic because not everyone likes a wynjammer. I have one, but I also like to hear what everyone'S OPINION is, whether it be good or bad, Thats the point of a topic, and FREE SPEECH, dont ever pretend to play GOD. , If its not what you like to read, than move on, SHUT IT DOWN IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE IMMATURE AND CALL EACH OTHER NAMES< but for gods sakes, not because some one doesnt agree with you.
Nick



Ok, first off, he is doing his job, dont jump on him for that. That is why there are mods and admins, so discussions can be had, not name calling crap like what is starting to happen here. Second, to everyone, this thread wasnt, "Who builds the best Supercharger" Had this been the title, then some of the "discussion" here would have been better. The title of the thread, was what??? Can anyone tell me?? Wait, let me quote it. Wynjammer #'s Ahhh, thats right, someone, (probably the owner of a new jammer) was asking what some of the numbers people have gotten were, not who built the best. This whole thread has been chasing tails. This is all opinion. Until someone, not affiliated with any of the companies, installs one of each on a stock vehicle and not only dynos them at the correct hg, but also turns in some slips, to show real world effeciency, then we arent gonna get anywhere. That was my .02, heres my 5$. Dont join a forum to start ****, thats gay, go somewhere else and be an e gangsta, we dont need that here. This site is what used to be www.s10planet.com sure we arent as big as forum and mys10, but thats ok. We have less rifraf like you who come in to do nothing more than whore a thread. If you have a problem with smething, state it in a non-douche like manner in a THREAD OF YOUR OWN. Thank you come again.

http://www.sicgmtrucks.com/gallery/data/500/10owned.jpg

[Sparky2263]

Well, we as a group really don't. I'm simply sharing my extensive experience with and around high-performance vehicles.

You'll find my information to be well founded though.

[Sparky2263]

Damn T Man! hehe

I like that pic.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

To put things back into perspective:

Wynjammer hp #s on a 100% stock truck: 65 rwhp gain. Depending on what the truck puts out initially (the test truck was rated for 136 rwhp stock), you can see around 200+ rwhp. The test truck dynoed 201 rwhp with no other mods, running the Wynjammer at 6 psi.

[Sparky2263]

I've got lots of good data on the Blazer if someone wants to donate one for test purposes. ;)

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Here's a link to the appropriate thread:

http://www.sicgmtrucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=692

[Sparky2263]

Super, how do you feel about the correction factor between those 2 tests? Looks a little odd.

[lamerboy]

238hp/273torque @ 9psi vortech nonintercooled 91 octane.

http://www.jhbi.com/dyno1.jpg

Ive never said anyone supercharger is better than another. However I dont believe one is all that much more efficient than the rest or so much more efficient that it will make all that much difference than the others ESPECIALLY at 6psi.

When calculating compressor efficiency there are no different formulas or math involved. Its purely taking how many psi, the efficiency of the compressor at that pressure and doing the math.

Please dont get into the turbine spun by exhaust is much hotter than that of a turbine spun by a belt or gears. The difference is negligable.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Super, how do you feel about the correction factor between those 2 tests? Looks a little odd.
I'll be honest, I'm not a dyno technician. . . I notice that there IS an odd difference. . . The Hg and the elevation. . . Hmm, I don't know what the deal is with that.

I don't know what those variables would result in with the results -- again, I'm not a dyno tech. All I can base my opinions on are my own experiences. Going from a Powerdyne running 9 psi to a Jammer running 6 psi, I felt an increase -- it pulls harder and smoother. But, now that you've pointed it out, the correction factor has me bugged. . . What would the differences amount to in hp? Lower temp for the S/C, but higher altitude for the stocker, and the Hg is lower for the stocker as well. . . I don't know how to read it, but a little light at the end of the tunnel would be most beneficial.

[Sparky2263]

If I plug in 76.6 degs., 28.9Hg and %43 humidity I get a correction factor of 1.03 (relative hp=97.1%).

To get a 1.02 CF ( relative hp=98%) I have to plug in 80% humidity on a 66.8 deg., 29.0 Hg day.

Don't know the location of the dyno but 80% on a 66.8 deg. day seems a little unlikely. If the humidty was closer to the N/A run the hp difference would've been greater e.g. the supercharger made more hp than shown.

[03 Rado]

Whether or not I'm a math genius has nothing to do with it.



Again I dont see how this adds anything to the "discussion". Except that youre the one acting like a child.



This maybe very well true but it doesnt apply to this situation since no supercharger is 100% efficient.



Actually the air going into the blower is already "heat soaked" its not going to get any hotter once the air is compressed (unless intercooled) which is why when calculating engine airflow requirements for a turbo/supercharger you should only be concerned with the air temp going in.



So you think that under hood temps of 180 degrees are going to be any lower with a wynjammer? Under hood temps are created by the temperature of the engine and the amount of airflow under the hood.



Actually there is alot more involved than that.. Its more like 64 degrees rise in temp at 6psi and with 85 degree inlet temps (for example sake) which would be 149 degrees F ideal outlet temp at 85% adiabatic efficiency.
At 75% adiabatic efficiency 6psi 85 degree inlet temps you're looking at a 73 degree rise in outlet temp or 158 degrees actual outlet temp. so between 85% adiabatic efficiency and 75% adiabatic efficiency you'll see a difference of 9 degrees no matter what the inlet temp is and no matter what the heat soaked under hood temps are. Since on the same vehicle underhood temps (inlet temps) will be the same.



You are completely making up numbers with no factual infomation what so ever. I find it interesting that you believe a 190degree engine has less of an effect to air exiting the supercharger than the temp of the supercharger itself which is going to be the same temperature as the engine due to heatsoak which COMES FROM THE ENGINE.

The air is already heatsoaked entering the blower. It doesnt get hotter after the blower unless your running very low boost or you are intercooling the air and it travels a long distance after the intercooler before entering the TB.

Go ahead do the math yourself. I'll paste my math up here if you want.
All the equations are right here:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbotech/main.htm

Oh Boy, Turbo Rustangs.

Now that you've stated that Boyles gas laws only apply to the way you'd like, youve allready lost the battle of wits. Your witless and so is your link.
Air no matter what it comes in contact with will heat soak and no matter what its allready gone through it'll heat soak further.
Boyles law directly works that every 5% in efficiency is roughly a 9 degree temperature increase no matter what the Rustangers say. Sorry science comes before anything. You have X temperature air entering, the compression of it and it efficiency of compressing it will determine part of its output temp, the temperature of the head will also add more heat to it while under compression beyond what the compression does alone. Tubing heat soaked by engine heat if its higher in temp than the output temp will also allow a heat soak rise, intake manifold does the same thing and also the valves and cylinders once it enters before it compressed again. THOSE are all part of Boyles laws which you dont want to see or understand. For one to get anywhere near and accurate reading of the final temp before final comression would have to have a thermometer within the cylinder or just near the valve to get accurate data.
Thats why 2 setups of the same pressure can have to widely different gains to them which you fail to ever admit or see. I'm siding with the Wynjammer based on Science and what SC had said in numberous posts I have read. Its head is no way as hot as any other, its isolated from large amounts of heat soak other than engine radiant heat.

[lamerboy]

If the under hood temps from both the engine and supercharger is 185 degrees and the air at say 8 psi coming out of the blower is at 185 degrees, how is it going to get any hotter?

Or for example at 6psi 75% efficiency I calculated 158 degrees. 185 degrees underhood temp would be a difference of 27 degrees. 25% of which is a little over 7 degrees, or 50% would be 14 degrees. I mean what are you trying to prove? that a wynjammer doesnt increase underhood temps? As I already stated: Nothing increases underhood temps as much as the engine with 6 (or 8) explosions occuring all the time, hot heads that contain the explosions and hot exhaust manifolds diverting the explosions out of the engine.

Heatsoak applies to a wynjammer just as much as it does to a vortech, procharger, or powerdyne.

[lamerboy]

Thats why 2 setups of the same pressure can have to widely different gains to them which you fail to ever admit or see. I'm siding with the Wynjammer based on Science and what SC had said in numberous posts I have read. Its head is no way as hot as any other, its isolated from large amounts of heat soak other than engine radiant heat.

The difference in temperature and the amount of time air is within the supercharger is so small that it hardly makes any difference. Its more of a selling point that powerdyne has used to sell their product.

Honestly, I've measured the outlet temps of my blower before the intercooler and at a sustained 6psi it was 135 degrees with 65 degree ambient air temperature which correlates with the math I've done.

S/CZQ8 measured his wynjammer outlet temps at 6psi as being 115 degrees in dec/jan in ohio. I'm sure it was atleast 15 degrees cooler than in my tests.

Go check the formulas, maybe you'll learn something.

[Sparky2263]

I'm not up on Voyle's law, but I know this. Let's take a cubic foot of air at X temp. and compress it to, say, a cubic inch. The heat that was contained in the cubic foot is now compressed into a cubic inch and thus will be much hotter.

Compressing any gas results in a temperature rise and a significant one at that. If not, intercoolers wouldn't really be needed.

Now, let's apply this to superchargers (or turbo's for that matter). The significant part of the temp. rise is going to be from the compression of air. Yes, efficiency and the temperature of the components will play a part in intake temp. (hence inventions such as the RPM Air-Gap manifold) but, IMO, a much smaller one than is being presented by some here. The production of power (with the examples being presented here) is going to be mostly determined by the boost level. The Wynjammer generally is thought of as the lowest output in the circles I run in. Guess because most guys stick with the 6 psi boost. As I stated before, the price and ease of installation make the Wynjammer a VERY attractive product.

Speaking of blower efficiency, anybody realize the power it takes to just run the blower on a top fuel or funny car? Over 300 horsepower at speed. So much for efficiency. (I know, bad example ;))

P.S. After looking at Super's dyno numbers, I'm thinking the power difference may have been 75 or more horsepower. With an older design. Maybe I'm wrong on it being the lowest output?

[94s10]

P.S. After looking at Super's dyno numbers, I'm thinking the power difference may have been 75 or more horsepower. With an older design. Maybe I'm wrong on it being the lowest output?

well now that we have close to 15 new wyjammed members on here, hopefully we will see some new dyno numbers for you to dissect.

i'v been thinkin of doing a before/after dyno runs with my truck along with the before/after 1/4 mile passes, guess i should start looking for a reputable place, but i dont know where i'm gonna fit that in if we are still doing that CPI cam swap.

[Sparky2263]

Sparky's is a fully equipped, modern auto repair facility. And hot-rod shop ;).

[94s10]

that wouldnt be your place would it lol

[lamerboy]

I'm not up on Voyle's law, but I know this. Let's take a cubic foot of air at X temp. and compress it to, say, a cubic inch. The heat that was contained in the cubic foot is now compressed into a cubic inch and thus will be much hotter.

Compressing any gas results in a temperature rise and a significant one at that. If not, intercoolers wouldn't really be needed.

Now, let's apply this to superchargers (or turbo's for that matter). The significant part of the temp. rise is going to be from the compression of air. Yes, efficiency and the temperature of the components will play a part in intake temp. (hence inventions such as the RPM Air-Gap manifold) but, IMO, a much smaller one than is being presented by some here. The production of power (with the examples being presented here) is going to be mostly determined by the boost level.

Thanks for the simple explanation. The equations I am using to calculate my numbers, and shared the link for take all of this into consideration. Seems that no one wants to actually look at them and see what they involve.

Engine airflow requirements (which includes displacement and volumetric efficiency).
Pressure ratio.
Temperature Rise.
Adiabatic Efficiency
Density Ratio.
Compressor Inlet Airflow.

I am not a wynjammer hater I am a forced induction lover. :D

[biglouie_underpressure]

Excellent info Super. I'll throw my 2 cents in.

I see LOTS of blower installs. I personally don't do anything but N/A due to the nature of my racing but have installed a few and see the results of many. The Wynjammer is the EASIEST install, period. Yet, it also yields the lowest rwhp of those mentioned. By how much? As Super said, dyno's can be rigged (re: Baro pressure input) to read anything. Saw a guy with some extraordinary hp numbers and then noticed on his dyno sheet 26.9" Hg. Well, when corrected to 29.92 of course they're gonna look good. I'd say the Wynjammer is short about 10-30 horsepower. Price and installation ease will probably make that negligible.

Now, if I WAS gonna supercharge it and spend the money? Roots baby, and put all 3 to shame. yea short 50 hp and takes 50hp to drive so running 10psi will be no gain. this thread blows just some other bullshyt from another from brought by some @ss running 12psi intercooled with a trap speed of 75mph.how about this....Use one of your handy dandy calculators to figure how much hp you have, grow some balls, come to nats,lay down some money and get your @ss handed to you.

[XxInFaxX]

yea short 50 hp and takes 50hp to drive so running 10psi will be no gain. this thread blows just some other bullshyt from another from brought by some @ss running 12psi intercooled with a trap speed of 75mph.how about this....Use one of your handy dandy calculators to figure how much hp you have, grow some balls, come to nats,lay down some money and get your @ss handed to you.


ouch. i cant say anything to that besides "go to nationals. lets see who really wins this debate!"

[Sparky2263]

yea short 50 hp and takes 50hp to drive so running 10psi will be no gain. this thread blows just some other bullshyt from another from brought by some @ss running 12psi intercooled with a trap speed of 75mph.how about this....Use one of your handy dandy calculators to figure how much hp you have, grow some balls, come to nats,lay down some money and get your @ss handed to you.

Louie, am I reading this wrong? You don't like the Wynjammer?

I don't think it takes 50 hp to drive it. Maybe a roots (my choice).

[Sparky2263]

ouch. i cant say anything to that besides "go to nationals. lets see who really wins this debate!"

Louie has to get a truck that'll make a pass before he can do that. ;)

[biglouie_underpressure]

frosty you have nothing to worry about,you'll have a full pass against me. j/k

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Ok -- first off, let me state this: KEEP IT CIVIL. Irritation is mounting, and that is when people say (or type, in this case) things that are best left unsaid.

03 Rado, BigLouie, lamerboy -- chill out. This post was started by someone that purchased a kit wondering what kind of output it had. With Mrfrosty pointing out an inconsistency in the dyno that was forwarded to me, a concern has been raised. It is not a pissing contest over anything. I have stated my viewpoints on all products as turthfully as I can and based upon what I have seen for myself, experienced, AND been told.

The dyno that was forwarded to me showed a 65 rwhp gain at 6 psi, but a couple of the variables don't figure quite fully. It has been pointed out that the Hg is different and I have also noticed that the elevation was different. My question is this: If it were done at the same shop, why are the variables so different?

Just going on theory alone, one can expect a 10 hp gain per psi the blower produces. So, with that stated, putting all efficiency numbers aside, ignoring brand loyalties, etc. the Wynjammer can be expected to produce 60 rwhp as far as a power gain. END OF STORY. If it produces more, GREAT. If it produces less, then there is a problem.

And on a side note: Al has never made any claims as to what the kit produces -- neither to me, nor to any member that I am aware of or recall (if he has, then I stand corrected). The gain in question is from a dyno sheet that Al forwarded to me at my request. I posted it on my own. If it is in error, then hopefully one of the members that benefited from the Group Purchase will have one to take its place.

A thought I am considering: removing the belt from the Jammer on my own truck and doing a baseline dyno, then replacing it and doing another to see what actual gains FOR MY APPLICATION the Jammer produces. Of course, the gains will also depend on other mods in place, however minimal. Of course, that statement will probably spark yet another debate. . . But, oh well!

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Louie, am I reading this wrong? You don't like the Wynjammer?

I don't think it takes 50 hp to drive it. Maybe a roots (my choice).
To clarify, I think it was Louie's attempt at sarcasm regarding the Roots blower idea. . . A centrifugal S/C takes a certain amount of power to drive, but nowhere near 50 hp -- closer to 10 or 15, hence why they are more efficient than Roots blowers in certain respects.

[Sparky2263]

To clarify, I think it was Louie's attempt at sarcasm regarding the Roots blower idea. . . A centrifugal S/C takes a certain amount of power to drive, but nowhere near 50 hp -- closer to 10 or 15, hence why they are more efficient than Roots blowers in certain respects.

Okay. That's what I was thinking.

BTW, you know me and Louie are ****in' with each other, right?

[Sparky2263]

[QUOTE=Supercharged-ZQ8]The dyno that was forwarded to me showed a 65 rwhp gain at 6 psi, but a couple of the variables don't figure quite fully. It has been pointed out that the Hg is different and I have also noticed that the elevation was different. My question is this: If it were done at the same shop, why are the variables so different?QUOTE]

Re: Wynjammer #'s

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I plug in 76.6 degs., 28.9Hg and %43 humidity I get a correction factor of 1.03 (relative hp=97.1%).

To get a 1.02 CF ( relative hp=98%) I have to plug in 80% humidity on a 66.8 deg., 29.0 Hg day.

Don't know the location of the dyno but 80% on a 66.8 deg. day seems a little unlikely. If the humidty was closer to the N/A run the hp difference would've been greater e.g. the supercharger made more hp than shown.




I think somebody put their coffee cup by the hygrometer when the blower dyno run was made :).

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

[QUOTE=Supercharged-ZQ8]The dyno that was forwarded to me showed a 65 rwhp gain at 6 psi, but a couple of the variables don't figure quite fully. It has been pointed out that the Hg is different and I have also noticed that the elevation was different. My question is this: If it were done at the same shop, why are the variables so different?QUOTE]

Re: Wynjammer #'s

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I plug in 76.6 degs., 28.9Hg and %43 humidity I get a correction factor of 1.03 (relative hp=97.1%).

To get a 1.02 CF ( relative hp=98%) I have to plug in 80% humidity on a 66.8 deg., 29.0 Hg day.

Don't know the location of the dyno but 80% on a 66.8 deg. day seems a little unlikely. If the humidty was closer to the N/A run the hp difference would've been greater e.g. the supercharger made more hp than shown.




I think somebody put their coffee cup by the hygrometer when the blower dyno run was made :).
So, let me check my reading skills. . . The dyno sheet shows 65 rwhp as the gain. Going by the numbers for the CF, it looks as if the S/C probably made MORE than that 65 rwhp gain? That's heartening. . .

What about the elevation difference? The N/A run was showing 1000 ft, but the blower run was showing 0 ft. As far as I'm aware, that would also affect the results. At least, I know in racing altitude affects power -- so with computer correction factors, I would think it also makes a difference. . .

[Sparky2263]

The correction factor jibes with the density altitude IF I plug in the humidity numbers shown.

My issue is having to plug in 80% humidity on an under 70 deg. day. Not a likely reading. Not impossible, just not likely.

That means the possibility of another 5-15 hp gain over what the dyno is showing.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Looking at a slightly better resolution-ed copy, here are the variables I'm seeing:

N/A run: 76.6*F -- 28.90--0.44 in.Hg -- 1000 ft. -- CF=1.03 -- RPM/MPH=81 -- Max power=136.8

WJ run: 66.8*F -- 29.00-0.44 in.Hg -- 0 ft. -- CF=1.02 -- RPM/MPH=82 -- Max power=201.7

Now, will somebody please tell me what the calculations are? I'm not a dyno-tech, so I can only recognize the differences and know that they affect the reading -- I don't know HOW they would, but I know they do.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

The correction factor jibes with the density altitude IF I plug in the humidity numbers shown.

My issue is having to plug in 80% humidity on an under 70 deg. day. Not a likely reading. Not impossible, just not likely.

That means the possibility of another 5-15 hp gain over what the dyno is showing.
Hmm. . . So, going by the figures on the sheet, the Wynjammer produced between a 65 rwhp and an 80 rwhp gain, then. . .

INTERESTING! Not bad for 6 psi. And, if that is the case, it puts it ahead of the Powerdyne in power production, and pretty darn close to the Vortech. . . Again, I'm not saying one is better than another -- they all have inherent advantages and disadvantages. But, this would explain why I'm feeling more of a gain with a 6 psi Wynajmmer kit than I did with a 9 psi Powerdyne kit. . . Again: INTERESTING!

[Sparky2263]

My experience has been this. Anybody can buy a piece of equipment. An experienced operator is a whole different story. We are blessed with a dyno operator who also happens to be a 2nd generation drag racer and engine builder. Learn a lot from those guys with all the trophys on the wall, ya know?

[bvr775]

My issue is having to plug in 80% humidity on an under 70 deg. day. Not a likely reading. Not impossible, just not likely.


for that area it's about right.

[Sparky2263]

for that area it's about right.

In Tempe, AZ?

[03 Rado]

:sleep_125:thewave::wcj:

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

[Sparky2263]

well now that we have close to 15 new wyjammed members on here, hopefully we will see some new dyno numbers for you to dissect.

i'v been thinkin of doing a before/after dyno runs with my truck along with the before/after 1/4 mile passes, guess i should start looking for a reputable place, but i dont know where i'm gonna fit that in if we are still doing that CPI cam swap.

I got an idea. We have a perfect opportunity here. I'll donate my shop, time and resources to lay this to rest. You're thinking 1st week of June anyway, that's only a month away. Here's the schedule to me. First dyno set, your truck as is. Come back to shop and install blower. Second dyno set, blower only. We get a direct comparison that way. Then, come back, install cam and get a third dyno set. On that set, we'll unhook the blower to get a close idea of what the cam alone did.

This can all be accomplished on a Fri and Sat.

Here's the best part. First week of the month at Gainesville Raceway is Friday night Street drags. Saturday night is test and tune. Lot's of 1/4 opportunitys.

Hey, maybe even ***L O U I E*** could show up. ;)

If the Planet wants to kick in on this, great.

Whatcha' say 94S10?

Constructive ideas needed.

[94s10]

I got an idea. We have a perfect opportunity here. I'll donate my shop, time and resources to lay this to rest. You're thinking 1st week of June anyway, that's only a month away. Here's the schedule to me. First dyno set, your truck as is. Come back to shop and install blower. Second dyno set, blower only. We get a direct comparison that way. Then, come back, install cam and get a third dyno set. On that set, we'll unhook the blower to get a close idea of what the cam alone did.

This can all be accomplished on a Fri and Sat.

Here's the best part. First week of the month at Gainesville Raceway is Friday night Street drags. Saturday night is test and tune. Lot's of 1/4 opportunitys.

If the Planet wants to kick in on this, great.

Whatcha' say 94S10?


sounds good to me. i'll prolly have the blower installed well before then. we will just disconnect the charge pipe for n/a runs i guess, maybe we could knock it out in one day. i have headers and a y-pipe i was gonna instal to, do you want me to wait on that?

[Sparky2263]

Hmmm.....probably be best to leave it as close to stock as possible. Figures will be more accurate that way. If you can do Thursday also that would be a help. More time the better.

If you're wanting to do exhaust at the same time my exhaust guy has been doing mine 15 years. He'll do anything I ask ;).

[94s10]

ok i'll put off the headers then. i have a flow master 40 series that is cut off right behind the muffler. i had to because of being bagged in the back. i cant think off much else you can do with it since it cant go over the axle. the exhaust is pretty ragged though and needing re-done (why i got the edelbrock headers and y-pipe). the stock y-pipe is smashed up pretty good

i wont be able to come up thursday, i have class from 2 to 6. i'll have to drive up early friday

whats the name of your shop? i'll have 5.7 injectors installed with the supercharger when i bring the truck to your place, should i bring the 4.3 injectors with me to swap back in?

[Sparky2263]

The name of my shop? Why, Sparky's of course ;).

Yes, bring everything it'll need to get it as close to a stock baseline run as possible. I'd like for this to be as close to a "what doesthe wynnjammer alone do" test. Then we'll just keep track of mods as we progress.

[94s10]

this is going to be a great contribution to the forum! i'll owe you big time after this.

[lamerboy]

yea short 50 hp and takes 50hp to drive so running 10psi will be no gain. this thread blows just some other bullshyt from another from brought by some @ss running 12psi intercooled with a trap speed of 75mph.how about this....Use one of your handy dandy calculators to figure how much hp you have, grow some balls, come to nats,lay down some money and get your @ss handed to you.

Okay internet warrior. Atleast I didnt have to go into my engine to get the same ET as you. I already told you I wont be at the Nats due to the 4,000 mile drive.

Thanks for the kind words. Now why dont you send me another pm acting all nice like you did over at s10forum.

[Maximus]

It sure would be a great article to write up with dyno proven results for anyone who owns or is thinking of owning a Wynjammer.I know me being a TBI owner would love to see just how much of a gain the kit does for a TBI engine.But for the bigger picture you really need someone with a 96 up vortec engine to do also.And does anyone know were a good chassis dyno is near were I live.The local shop that had one just shut down.So we have nothing local now.And I really wanna get the TA on one.

[Maximus]

Okay internet warrior. Atleast I didnt have to go into my engine to get the same ET as you. I already told you I wont be at the Nats due to the 4,000 mile drive.

Thanks for the kind words. Now why dont you send me another pm acting all nice like you did over at s10forum.Alright there have been plenty enough warnings to cool it.There won't be anymore for anyone.

[03 Rado]

OK 36-38 DD's again!!

[Maximus]

See now don't the thought of hooters just change the mood to all good.

[XxInFaxX]

See now don't the thought of hooters just change the mood to all good.

as long as its not the hooters girls...they have gotten so nasty around here. anyways, back on topic!

[03 Rado]

XxinfaxX , should have used the avatar as a reply, be larger that way!

[94s10]

It sure would be a great article to write up with dyno proven results for anyone who owns or is thinking of owning a Wynjammer.I know me being a TBI owner would love to see just how much of a gain the kit does for a TBI engine.But for the bigger picture you really need someone with a 96 up vortec engine to do also.And does anyone know were a good chassis dyno is near were I live.The local shop that had one just shut down.So we have nothing local now.And I really wanna get the TA on one.

i think the bigger picture is to get a wynjammer on the dyno and track with some proven numbers. my goal was to get the truck pushing 190-200 rwhp with 6 psi and the stock cam. that seems alot more likely with a CPI cam. who knows maybe its even possible with 4 psi and the cam. 200hp should get into the 14's with traction you think?

i need to call Al!

[lamerboy]

My reason for posting here was to object to claims made by someone on this forum that a Vortech blower has outlet temps of over 200 degrees while a Wynjammer has outlet temps of just 115 degrees at 6psi. At no time did this person state at what boost pressure the vortech blower would have to be pushing to see outlet temps of 200 degrees or more. As I have already stated I measured the outlet temps of my vortech blower before the intercooler at 6psi to be just 135 degrees with an ambient temperature of 65 degrees. Only when at or above 11psi did I see outlet temps with the Vortech blower over 200 degrees with 90+ degree ambient temps.

Go ahead call me whatever you wish. Its awfully sad and unfair to make false claims about another manufacturers kits to convince fellow S10 owners to purchase a certain blower kit.

Good luck with your trucks.

[03 Rado]

You assumed both here and another forum it was 6 PSI to 6 PSI. When the real post was done it was that the Vortec at 6 PSI was a higher outlet temp than the Wynjammer by allmost 20 degrees before your attitude kicked in and made it a difference in boost numbers!

[Maximus]

i think the bigger picture is to get a wynjammer on the dyno and track with some proven numbers. my goal was to get the truck pushing 190-200 rwhp with 6 psi and the stock cam. that seems alot more likely with a CPI cam. who knows maybe its even possible with 4 psi and the cam. 200hp should get into the 14's with traction you think?

i need to call Al!Yours is a non balance shaft engine you should really look in to the GM performance cam.It is a real good cam profile.You can get any GMPP dealer to order it for you.I got mine for a real decent price.

[94s10]

how do you know my motor is non-balance shaft? i thought all 4.3 were balance shaft after like 89 or 90 i believe?

Edit: i just did some research and saw that all 4.3's after 92 were balance shaft motors, anyone know if this is true or not

[lamerboy]

You assumed both here and another forum it was 6 PSI to 6 PSI. When the real post was done it was that the Vortec at 6 PSI was a higher outlet temp than the Wynjammer by allmost 20 degrees before your attitude kicked in and made it a difference in boost numbers!

I made no such assumptions. Only an idiot would assume that 1 supercharger creates outlet temps 85 degrees less at the same boost pressure than all the other manufacturers. Also please show me where my attitude kicked in.

The math here was 6psi to 6psi with 75% and 85% adiabatic efficiency. At the same pressure even with 10% difference in adiabatic efficiency there is hardly any difference in outlet temps.
My whole point of the 6psi to 6psi comparison was to prove a vortech blower has close to the same outlet temps at the same boost pressure its only difference being due to adiabatic efficiency.

So.... it takes well over 6psi to create outlet temps of over 200 degrees with a Vortech, procharger or powerdyne blower.

[Maximus]

how do you know my motor is non-balance shaft? i thought all 4.3 were balance shaft after like 89 or 90 i believe?

Edit: i just did some research and saw that all 4.3's after 92 were balance shaft motors, anyone know if this is true or notI have read that they were supposed to be balance shaft after 92 but mine is a 93 and it isn't a balance shaft engine.It's easy to tell just look the the front timing chain cover.I wil try and find some pics of both.But the non balance shaft looks just like your old run of the mill smallblock V8's cover.

[Maximus]

And I have yet to see a TBI with a balance shaft.Not saying they're isn't any just that I have not seen any.A TBI intake interferes with the shaft but they might have addressed the problem in later models.

[94s10]

i have seen one thread at s-seriesforum.com were someone had a cracked TBI manifold. he picked up one from a junk yard or something and found it was from a non-balance shaft 4.3, his truck was a balance shaft 4.3 and there was a threaded hole or somethin on the bottom of the manifold that may have interfered, he just grinded it down and it work fine. i'm gonna go look now...

[Maximus]

If you can see the timing cover it will have an extra "bump" in the top to show where the shaft drives from.

[94s10]

theres an indentation (concave) towards the top of the timing cover where the balance shaft would be, is that the "bump" i'm supposed to look for?

Edit: its also kind of ridged out further a little on the top of this concave indent

[03 Rado]

Go ahead call me whatever you wish. Its awfully sad and unfair to make false claims about another manufacturers kits to convince fellow S10 owners to purchase a certain blower kit.

Good luck with your trucks.

First off when that post over at S10 Forums began it was 6 PSI to 7 PSI with someone factoring the difference, making the Vortec 6 PSI. Few got going into it and you skewed it into yours at 11 SPI which wasnt apples to oranges,but that wasnt what was being debated at the time. But forget that alltogether.

For years I read S10 Forums and never posted and you say its awfully sad and unfair to push kit over the other. Well your home site did that for years editing and deleting posts to make the ATI kit the king of kings. Nothing could compare to the ATI kit, not even close. Few had took there Vortec kits over to this guy and had him look them over to find out why the difference in the kits existed. He went and added intercoolers and his tuning along with series of FMU tried and PSI to PSI his kit always outdid the Vortec by 25 h.p.+. He found and posted the difference being it had to by the extra heat the head generated that made the difference which was probably the only true post he ever made. Once he screwed a few people with his kit, they went against him and he was forgotten. All his Gtech 1/4 mile runs to his desk top dyno projections of horsepower via MAF Readings which were also FIGURED numbers since the GMS MAF cant read correctly to is was the MAX reading equated to the new diameter size of the MAF corrected to and air flow amount. Dam years and years of people buying crap cause at least 20 people lied to protect him and knew the truth, 16 second trucks factory posted real time slips showing 16 seconds down to now 13.38, pretty good for h.p. numbers that'll never support it. SO now since thats died the Vortec has become the king and Powerdyne went from the cellar to the #2 kit.

The Wynjammer is just like my STS kit I have. Its new and the masses at S10 Forums just cant believe its any good or cant work as well if not better. Like my STS kit, its too far back, it wont boost right, it'll lag like sh*t. Buts lets forget that the turbo isnt being superheated anymore, its sized per its location and has a built in AFTERCOOLER, but its still a piece of sh*t cause its a new fangled idea no one will understand even though they supposidly know compressor maps and the likes! Sorry but Boyles law states a 10% efficiency change in pressure building of any gas form will increase the temp 18 degrees which was pretty much posted, but thats a lie and the Wynjammer still must be a peice of sh*t!

[Maximus]

Then yup you have a balance shaft engine.I think the timing cover on balance shaft engine is a compaosite plastic too.But I am almost positive yours is.

[94s10]

Then yup you have a balance shaft engine.I think the timing cover on balance shaft engine is a compaosite plastic too.But I am almost positive yours is.

thank god!! i was worried that CPI cam wouldnt work!

[Maximus]

This is what a balance shaft timing cover looks like.
FRONThttp://www.sicgmtrucks.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1261&stc=1
BACKhttp://www.sicgmtrucks.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1260&stc=1

[lamerboy]

First off when that post over at S10 Forums began it was 6 PSI to 7 PSI with someone factoring the difference, making the Vortec 6 PSI. Few got going into it and you skewed it into yours at 11 SPI which wasnt apples to oranges,but that wasnt what was being debated at the time. But forget that alltogether.

Sorry but Boyles law states a 10% efficiency change in pressure building of any gas form will increase the temp 18 degrees which was pretty much posted, but thats a lie and the Wynjammer still must be a peice of sh*t!

When are you going to get it? What was being debated was a comparison of 2 superchargers one producing outlet temps 85 degrees higher than the other at the same boost level.
I have seen temps of over 200 degrees only when at or above 11psi. Not at 6 or 7psi. Again: 135 degrees at a sustained 6psi.

"5% difference in adiabatic efficiency produces only a 1% difference in hp at the same boost level w/o intercooling". You think procharger just makes this stuff up?

Ive never said wynjammer is a piece of $%#@. Damn. Try to share some info and everyone thinks you hate a product.

btw I'm not mach perfomance and I'm not making bs claims to ANYTHING.

[94s10]

maximus, that cover must be for newer 4.3's. my cover has similar dimensions, but its metal and looks alot smoother (curves instead of sharp angles)

[Sparky2263]

Alright there have been plenty enough warnings to cool it.There won't be anymore for anyone.

Aww, come on Max, where's your sense of adventure. ;)

[Sparky2263]

i think the bigger picture is to get a wynjammer on the dyno and track with some proven numbers. my goal was to get the truck pushing 190-200 rwhp with 6 psi and the stock cam. that seems alot more likely with a CPI cam. who knows maybe its even possible with 4 psi and the cam. 200hp should get into the 14's with traction you think?

i need to call Al!

184 rwhp gets my Blazer to 14.6's and 7's. But she's been on a diet. 3250 lbs. with my 185 lb. self in it. Add a tenth ET for every 100 lbs. over that.

[94s10]

i have no clue what my truck would weigh. its a reg cab short bed. i imagine it wouldnt weigh much more than your blazer

[Sparky2263]

Probably 'bout the same. I'm thinking when we get done (barring traction or time issues) you'll be 13.9 to 14.5

Not bad, huh?

Get a second job, now. ;)

[94s10]

that would be bad ass. not bad for a TBI eh?

now i wont hesitate to kick those little ricers that try to race me all the damn time lol

[Sparky2263]

It's gonna take some tuning. And some of my personal magic ;).

You really need to be here thurs.

[Hammer]

First off when that post over at S10 Forums began it was 6 PSI to 7 PSI with someone factoring the difference, making the Vortec 6 PSI. Few got going into it and you skewed it into yours at 11 SPI which wasnt apples to oranges,but that wasnt what was being debated at the time. But forget that alltogether.

For years I read S10 Forums and never posted and you say its awfully sad and unfair to push kit over the other. Well your home site did that for years editing and deleting posts to make the ATI kit the king of kings. Nothing could compare to the ATI kit, not even close. Few had took there Vortec kits over to this guy and had him look them over to find out why the difference in the kits existed. He went and added intercoolers and his tuning along with series of FMU tried and PSI to PSI his kit always outdid the Vortec by 25 h.p.+. He found and posted the difference being it had to by the extra heat the head generated that made the difference which was probably the only true post he ever made. Once he screwed a few people with his kit, they went against him and he was forgotten. All his Gtech 1/4 mile runs to his desk top dyno projections of horsepower via MAF Readings which were also FIGURED numbers since the GMS MAF cant read correctly to is was the MAX reading equated to the new diameter size of the MAF corrected to and air flow amount. Dam years and years of people buying crap cause at least 20 people lied to protect him and knew the truth, 16 second trucks factory posted real time slips showing 16 seconds down to now 13.38, pretty good for h.p. numbers that'll never support it. SO now since thats died the Vortec has become the king and Powerdyne went from the cellar to the #2 kit.

The Wynjammer is just like my STS kit I have. Its new and the masses at S10 Forums just cant believe its any good or cant work as well if not better. Like my STS kit, its too far back, it wont boost right, it'll lag like sh*t. Buts lets forget that the turbo isnt being superheated anymore, its sized per its location and has a built in AFTERCOOLER, but its still a piece of sh*t cause its a new fangled idea no one will understand even though they supposidly know compressor maps and the likes! Sorry but Boyles law states a 10% efficiency change in pressure building of any gas form will increase the temp 18 degrees which was pretty much posted, but thats a lie and the Wynjammer still must be a peice of sh*t!

i could care less what s10forums says, what any other forum says except maybe mys10.com I don't see the benefit of running hot dirty engine oil to cool a high rpm bearing when it isn't neccessary. I don't see the benefit of long intake tubing. I don't see the benefits of other kits that compare to jammer kits and i don't even own any of them.

how many people have successfully setup the procharger setup with it's associated equipment? does it matter, no. the dyno sheets say everything that is needed to be said. say whatever you want about iat boost # etc. but what counts is reliability, longevity, tq and cost.

i still have yet to see you lamerboy, tell me how the other kits are better than the jammer? if you are so set on each s/c being virtually equal at any given boost than tell me why you'd go buy a procharger, vortech, powerdyne, or any other s/c INSTEAD of the wynjammer. if your statement is equality at any psi then go item for item and tell me how those s/c are better or have advantages to the jammer, thats all i ask.

[94s10]

It's gonna take some tuning. And some of my personal magic ;).

You really need to be here thurs.

i will honestly try to be there thursday, but it really depends on what we are doing in the classes. they are upper level classes and missing one class in the summer is li