4.3L Marine Intake Install Info and Questions (answers? :P) Thread

[12sws27]

Ok so here's a thread about getting the 4.3L Mercruiser/Volvo Marine MPI Intake on our 4.3s and other info related to the swap.

I have bought one and plan to install it one day.....when?.. IDK...

I made this thread so there is one place with all the info, questions & answers I/you/we have found, asked, answered or need to ask on the subject.

Here are some threads about the marine intake:

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50198

http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=317 V8 but a lot of stuff is the same

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f107/marine-intake-install-394433/

http://www.s10planet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19400&highlight=marine+intake Rabidbandet starts on his MI in post# 30

http://www.s10planet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12739&highlight=marine+intake

Here is the eBay seller that has the intakes quite often for $199.99 +shipping

http://stores.ebay.com/dougrussellmarine


Here or some pictures (yup...their stolen pics....)
10193

10194

10195

[firefighter]

Well you wen't off and did it.

This will be good I have a bunch of questions.

[Mikz86TA]

Cool, good info!

[12sws27]

Ok so here's some stuff I've found out so far so you don't have to dig through those threads I posted.....

The MI is 52lbs....yes it's heavy. The lower intake is cast iron and the upper plenum is aluminum

Our stock 96+ LIM/plenum/spider/tb set up is 22lbs according to a fella that weighed his.

You can not use the Throttle Body that comes on the marine intake. But your's will bolt right up. You just need to make your own gasket or buy this one, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-61178/ EDIT: I wasn't sure if that gasket was the right part after thinking about it. I'm not saying it isn't the right part because IDK. A guy that did the MI install on another forum said it is. I felt more confident with buying AcDelco part# 12570168 from rockauto.com.

As for all the Vacuum hook ups and all, you'll have to look at the different ideas around the forums. Seem everyone just kinda does what works for them. I'll be doing my own thing too. I'm just not sure what exactly that is yet.....I'll figure it out and talk about it later.

If you want to spend over $100 for fancy braided lines and/or fitting and stuff here or some part numbers and links you'll find usefull.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-9894DBHERL/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-9894DBJERL/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640850/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640860/

Now after you got all that you need some lines... You can either go here and have some made up....http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/product.php?productid=287&cat=29&page=1 IDK what lenght you should get. Maybe Rabidbandit can answer that for you. One guys I talked to says he got 6" from end to end of 6an fitting. He also said he got them to long. I here it's some where between 3-5". I'm not going that route so That's all the looking into it I going to do.

Or do like rabidbandit did and get one of these, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM3632/ if you don't all ready have one.

Then these fittings,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM1522/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM1512/

Then you just need some rubber hose and you can make your own..

I ain't spending $100+ on some damn lines myself. I'm just going to use some good quality high pressure fuel line and some good clamps.

What else......hmmmmmm....(Edit: In the following post I had a lot of trail and error with the fitting. There are pics and sizes of the fitting I used. In an attempt to save anyone that reads this and does this swap a bunch of trips back and forth to the hardware store. The hoses sizes are as follows.

Brake booster is 1/2" ID

Water pump bypass is 5/8" ID

Map sensor with the seal removed is 1/4" ID

EVAP purge solenoid is 3/8" ID

PVC is 3/8" ID and there's another vacuum line that plugs into the same stock fitting the PVC does in you old intake that is (IIRC) 1/4" or 5/16" ID. I'm pretty sure it's 1/4" though.

Heater hoses IDK, I'm in South Florida and I deleted my heater lines.

Break time...

[12sws27]

Link showing the plug and end differences in the most major designs of injectors
http://www.sdsefi.com/injectors.htm

Stolen from Mike!!^^^^^

[12sws27]

Ok now for the injectors on the marine intake......

This is quoted from the info on one of the links I posted...


The included injectors are Delphi EV6 24lbs/hr. @ 43.5psi. units with USCAR connectors. They work out to about 27lbs/hr. at this fuel pressures of about 53psi. These connectors are used on some Ford SVT models and the LS2 and LS7 engines. They are high impedance (~14ohm) and the same physical dimensions from o-ring to o-ring as standard Bosch type injectors.

USEABLE .....for naturally-aspirated L31's. Anything blown or having more cubic inches will want more of an upgrade in flow than the OEM Marine injectors can provide. (The whole point of this swap is that be able to put any size injectors in there you want!)
Standard EV1 injectors will also fit the rails and a harness must be made anyway. Connectors for the "oval" USCAR connectors are available.

[12sws27]

Here's a connector some fellas like to use to wire up the injectors.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8186/

[12sws27]

There is a adjustible 97-98 Vette FPR that you can use on the marine intake to lower the FP to the injectors. That thing is $130+ though!

Has any one thought about just using a OEM non-adjustable replacement 97-98 Vette FPR on the marine intake? I've read that the Vette line pressure is the same (58-60) as the s-series. That's before the regulator. I've been trying to find out what the stock FP to the Vette injectors are. If it's the same then you should just be able to put a stock $50 Vette FPR on it and it won't run so rich right?

I'm thinking if you can then it would make it easier for a guy like me that knows nothing about tuning yet. Any thoughts?

[12sws27]

Ok...umm.. never mind.....C5 injector flow rate is rated at 58 psi just like the marine intake. So the FPR on both keep 58 psi to the injectors.

[12sws27]

Ok, things I've bought for my Marine intake so far:

The intake. (about $240 shipped from ebay)
12 pin MSD Deutsch conector MSD-8186 (summit-like $22)
03-04 Ford Mustang Cobra EV6 39lb OEM Injectors part #M-9593-M39 (eBay $140 shipped)
and the $7 gasket.

I just remembered I need some new injector connectors.... (ebay.. $24.99 shipped)

So far I say I got less then $400 in the intake only. I got the intake a little cheaper then ebay and I got it and hptuner software in a packaged deal from Doug.

[Zygoat]

you sir, need to calm the hell down!

[12sws27]

you sir, need to calm the hell down!

Yeah I know! I'm done atleast a month or so. Nothing will be big purchases for a long while. Only vaccum lines, some fuel line and maybe a "T" fitting here and there.

[Zygoat]

sure... :P

[12sws27]

sure... :P

I swear it! I have a nice collection of crap to install.

[Bone Crusher]

I talked with Scott in passing a little on this topic, but what kind of tune would be needed for the marine intake to work? All of the previous links say how its a direct bolt on with mild work, but nothing about the tuning side to it.

[Jongo88]

I'm glad you asked that for me...

[Slacker1357]

So what kind of benefit is the marine intake over stock?
Any big power increase? kinda unsure as to why people like yourself might do this.

Would it be good for me, with my offroading?

[Bone Crusher]

The two major reasons to change out for the Marine intake.

1) For a more dependable fuel delivery system that will be trouble free for many miles and should give better power and fuel mileage.

2) Your current system is not upgradable and there for will not work on a force induction application (turbo/SC) and you need a new way to be able to
add more fuel.

[Slacker1357]

hmm... thanks. sounds like a possible plan later down the road..
Then again, so does a bigger motor.

[firefighter]

I like the idea of the marine intake for the reasons stated above but it also helps if you want to keep a stock look. The weight is my only concern. Another benefit is that is it can be done for a bunch cheaper than a 2114 intake probably about 1/5 the cost.

[Bone Crusher]

What are we talking here, like 20-30 lbs difference. That doesn't really seem justifiable on spending that much more for the 2114 IMO. What do they say, 100 lbs increases 1/4 times by .10 sec? It's not like we are in a top fuel dragster trying to get that extra 10th or 100th of a second....LOL

[firefighter]

Add a turbo or two and a bunch of extra piping plus a blow off valve here and there. lol
I would like to see performance comparisons between the two.

Either way I know that stock is not an option if you want to go even a little bit faster.

[Bone Crusher]

Your talking turbo and piping weight. I'm just talking weight difference in mani's

[firefighter]

Understood I'm just thinking if I add all that I "might" want to save weight where I can. But it has to be more than a weight savings. I'm curious about performance differences. I know dollar wise the Marine Manifold wins hands down. I need to get an idea of total cost of a 2114 conversion.

[TreasonAgainstCaesar]

Another benefit is that is it can be done for a bunch cheaper than a 2114 intake probably about 1/5 the cost.

The 2114 is only about $250 from summit. Are you talking about the additional cost to get it setup? I'm really not sure what else is needed.... just curious.

[firefighter]

The 2114 is only about $250 from summit. Are you talking about the additional cost to get it setup? I'm really not sure what else is needed.... just curious.

Yeah by the time you weld on the bungs and get the fuel rails and the TB adapter. also the extra wiring. IDK you can get everything but injectors, wiring, FPR from RPM for $750.

http://www.sytyperformance.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=247&category_id=171&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26

[Mikz86TA]

You could get away with less than $750 putting it together yourself. Flat TB adapter instead of that 90*, some different rails, etc. I havent added it up but at $250 for the intake leaves $500 to play with. Cant see spending $500 on rails and TB adapter

[firefighter]

I was thinking the same thing but was using that as a reference.


I would be interested in getting my hands on one of each and doing a comparo weights, measurements, flow ratings etc.

If I could find someone with a 2114 and then get Scotty to send me his (lol) I would set it up.

[rabidbandit]

I do know from my experience that this manifold has more plenum volume...no wires and tubes hanging in the airstream;) The runners are better finished and have even flow paths on the intake floor. It maybe a little heavier...but I'll take the better construction for both head to manifold seal, aluminum upper for boost, and obviously the injector arrangement:D

[firefighter]

I think we can all agree the Marine Mani is better than the stocker for sure. My biggest question would be the comparison between the Marine and the 2114. I am definatley going to have to one of them if I do any kind of mods.

[BOXY]

Hey, thanks for building this thread up! I have been jonezin for this setup, however... I have a '93 CPI. I haven't seen that conversion addressed anywhere. I am afraid I would have to get a crap load of stuff to make it work, am I right? Sweet forum BTW!

[Mikz86TA]

Search CPI to MPFI conversion. Its essentially the same

[12sws27]

Looking inside the PCM with HPtuners It says that the stock injectors are just shy of 24lb's hour on my 98. My 98 stock FPR reduces the 55-60psi line pressure to something like 45 psi. (IDK the exact numbers yet) The marine intake FPR runs 58 or 60 psi to the injectors (agian, not sure on the exact numbers) The marine injectors are the same size I understand but since the fuel pressure is higher the are something like 26lb/hr @ 60psi. So you would get a little more fuel.

When I data logged my stock 2000 blazer I seen injector duty cycles at 85% just short of 5000 RPMs. So I guess the little bit of extra fuel with some minor bolt ons and some good tuning could get you more power then the stock set up. IDK for sure really. I do know the the Marine intake can be done for just about the same price or just a little bit more then what it cost to get a AcDelco upgraded MPI spider.

[Jongo88]

Looking inside the PCM with HPtuners It says that the stock injectors are just shy of 24lb's hour on my 98. My 98 stock FPR reduces the 55-60psi line pressure to something like 45 psi. (IDK the exact numbers yet) The marine intake FPR runs 58 or 60 psi to the injectors (agian, not sure on the exact numbers) The marine injectors are the same size I understand but since the fuel pressure is higher the are something like 26lb/hr @ 60psi. So you would get a little more fuel.

When I data logged my stock 2000 blazer I seen injector duty cycles at 85% just short of 5000 RPMs. So I guess the little bit of extra fuel with some minor bolt ons and some good tuning could get you more power then the stock set up. IDK for sure really. I do know the the Marine intake can be done for just about the same price or just a little bit more then what it cost to get a AcDelco upgraded MPI spider.
So you can do it for under 250.00. That's a good deal.

[12sws27]

So you can do it for under 250.00. That's a good deal.

Where did I say "less than"? I said "for around the same" or "just a little more" Plus...AcDelco spider at most parts stores will cost you about $400.

Do I think I can do a marine intake swap on my Jimmy for about $400? You bet'cha. If I bought the MI from eBay, $240 shipped, Tunning for it, $65 including what it costs to ship the PCM. Misc. lines, fittings and a tap, less then $100. Probably less then $50.

I got my MI for less than $240 BTW.

[Bone Crusher]

yeah for $236.00 right?! LOL

[12sws27]

yeah for $236.00 right?! LOL

I guess around $180 shipped. I bought it with HPT software from Doug. So if I were to figure what % i saved on getting them both from him at the same time it would be $180 shipped for the MI.

[Jongo88]

I paid 250.00 for a AcDelco upgraded MPI spider.

[12sws27]

I paid 250.00 for a AcDelco upgraded MPI spider.

Congratulations?

[Jongo88]

I'm just sayin that there is no way I could of done the marine intake that cheep.

[12sws27]

I'm just sayin that there is no way I could of done the marine intake that cheep.

You could if you got one for free....


I'm just saying for what a lot of places ask for that "upgraded MPI" deal you could do a marine intake and you can diagnose/change you injectors or FPR with out tearing a bunch of stuff apart.

With the marine intake you also have the FP check port after the FPR. So you can see the exact FP that going to the injectors.

[s106banger]

with stock injectors in the MI i could do it for maybe $275 tops. i paid $200 shipped for the intake itself btw. gotta find those deals...

[12sws27]

John just likes to debate. He's a masterdebater....

[s106banger]

lol. lets tag team him... no homo.

[12sws27]

No way! I kinda ghey for Jongo. Circle jerk? Ok never mind...Back on topic? :)

[s106banger]

alright back on topic... lol.
i think im gonna do my swap stuff this month...
i cant decide if i want to it or the intercooler yet..

[12sws27]

Ok, so I went to the hardware shop and bought a few fittings. So now I have a place to clamp my brake booster and my water pump bypass hose. Now all I need to do is tap the hole where the marine MAP sensor was, put a "T" fitting there and I have a place for my MAP and EVAP. Then I'll start wiring up the intake. Might try to get it on next weekend.

Of course when I start I'll post pics and stuff.

[12sws27]

Here a pic of the fitting I have so far. These will be for the water pump bypass hose and brake booster.
(Edit: This all changed. I went a different route)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/98%20Jimmy%20Project/DSC00212.jpg

[firefighter]

Are you gonna port this thing at all before you bolt it on?

[Bone Crusher]

What fitting sizes did you use?

[firefighter]

I want flow numbers........

[firefighter]

Weigh that thing too. I want to know how it compares to a stock mani weight wise also I want to compare it to the Edelbrock for flow and weight.

[12sws27]

Are you gonna port this thing at all before you bolt it on?
Nope. :) Edit: I did grind some of the casting flash or what ever it's called off though.

What fitting sizes did you use?
Edit: What I posted last time was wrong. So I'm editing it so I don't screw any one up.

[12sws27]

Ok so here's some stuff I've found out so far so you don't have to dig through those threads I posted.....

The MI is 52lbs....yes it's heavy. The lower intake is cast iron and the upper plenum is aluminum

Our stock 96+ LIM/plenum/spider/tb set up is 22lbs according to a fella that weighed his.

You can not use the Throttle Body that comes on the marine intake. But your's will bolt right up. You just need to make your own gasket or buy this one, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-61178/ EDIT: I wasn't sure if that gasket was the right part after thinking about it. I'm not saying it isn't the right part because IDK. A guy that did the MI install on another forum said it is. I felt more confident with buying AcDelco part# 12570168 from rockauto.com.

As for all the Vacuum hook ups and all, you'll have to look at the different ideas around the forums. Seem everyone just kinda does what works for them. I'll be doing my own thing too. I'm just not sure what exactly that is yet.....I'll figure it out and talk about it later.

If you want to spend over $100 for fancy braided lines and/or fitting and stuff here or some part numbers and links you'll find usefull.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-9894DBHERL/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-9894DBJERL/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640850/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640860/

Now after you got all that you need some lines... You can either go here and have some made up....http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/product.php?productid=287&cat=29&page=1 IDK what lenght you should get. Maybe Rabidbandit can answer that for you. One guys I talked to says he got 6" from end to end of 6an fitting. He also said he got them to long. I here it's some where between 3-5". I'm not going that route so That's all the looking into it I going to do.

Or do like rabidbandit did and get one of these, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM3632/ if you don't all ready have one.

Then these fittings,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM1522/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM1512/

Then you just need some rubber hose and you can make your own..

I ain't spending $100+ on some damn lines myself. I'm just going to use some good quality high pressure fuel line and some good clamps.

What else......hmmmmmm....

Break time...
^^^^^^ See post #4 :p

Weigh that thing too. I want to know how it compares to a stock mani weight wise also I want to compare it to the Edelbrock for flow and weight.

It's 50lbs at least. The shipping wieght was 52lbs and the only other thing in the box was the HPtuner software which is less then 2lbs probably and an extra TB.

[Bone Crusher]

thx for not being lazy LOL

[12sws27]

thx for not being lazy LOL

Well I couldn't remember completely and I just knew I wouldn't be able to find the receipts...when I look for them I found them right away though of course.

Laziness is a virtue BTW...if it weren't for laziness none of the awesome inventions we have to day would of been invented. The wheel was invented when some lazy guys said "fuk dragging this sh!t There's got to be an easier way!"

[s106banger]

heres an update on my marine intake, i hope you dont mind scott.
pics...
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5357/pict00123.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8218/pict00133.jpg

[s106banger]

notice the TB..
and i cleaned up all the ridges on the lower..
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4852/pict00183.jpg

[12sws27]

I don't mind at all. The thread is for info. So the more info from everyone the better.

Are you deleting the EVAP? If not, where are you putting it?

[s106banger]

im deleting it, the line to the tanl will be capped off. B94 350 said it was leaving a bunch of crap inside the intake. and im running a catch can for the pcv system.

[12sws27]

Here a pic of the fitting I have so far. These will be for the water pump bypass hose and brake booster.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/98%20Jimmy%20Project/DSC00212.jpg

^^^^Not how I'm going to do it. Some how I got the idea in my head that the hoses were 1/2" They're not. They're 3/8". So I changed some things up. Looking at s106bangers pic made me realize that if I do it the way I was thinking I'd have to change hoses and reroute some of them. So I'm basically going to do it pretty much the same way most everyone else has.


Nope. :) Edit: I did grind some of the casting flash or what ever it's called off.

Edit: What I posted last time was wrong. So I'm editing it as not to screw any one up.

Incase any one wants to know, NPT=National Pipe Thread, MPT=Male Pipe Thread, FPT=Female Pipe Thread and HB=Hose Barb. I also used plenty of Thread Sealer on all my fitting to keep from having any vacuum leaks.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/marineintake004.jpg

^^^Pic of my intake after I sprayed it with some Eastwood high temp header paint. I had a whole can left over from doing my headers. That sh!t is expensive so I have to use it up some where. I like the satin black better then the glossy black that was on the intake any how.


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/marineintake003.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/marineintake002.jpg

^^^^ Couple pics of how I'm doing my bypass hose from the water pump. I used a 3/8 MPT-3/8 FPT 90* then screwed in a 3/8 FPT-3/8 HB. (EDIT: 3/8 HB is way to small for my water pump by pass hose. The barb needs to be 5/8. So a 3/8 FPT-1/2 MPT coupler and screw a 1/2 FPT-5/8HB to the 90* fitting)
I didn't have room to thread the 90 in because it was to close and hit the intake. So I had to grind the area a little bit. I painted it so it's hard to tell but if you look good you can see where I grinded.

I won't be using the EGR so I just screwed the plug in tight. I am also going to plug it in from the inside. You can't see it in any of the pics but there's a hole in the lower intake that's under the plenum. In the pic below there's tape over it, so you can't see it but it's the flat surface behind where the water neck mounts. It had a short metal tube pressed in. I removed it and will tap it a screw in a 3/8 NPT plug in it using plenty of red lock tight.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/marineintake001.jpg

There was a lot of casting flash around the ports so since I had my grinder out making room for my bypass hose 90, I figured I might as well clean that up too. If I had a die grinder I might have done a little more then just smoothed out the casting flash, but I don't.

The pic is after I painted the LIM and all the machined surfaces are taped up but you can see where I removed some of the rough edges.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/marineintake005.jpg
^^^^ My "T" fitting is a 1/4-1/4-1/4 FPT. I taped the hole where the marine intake MAP went with a 1/4 NPT tap. Then I screwed in a 1/4-1/4 MPT pipe joiner to the bottom and a 1/4 MPT-3/8 HB on each side. This is where I'm going to run my vacuum to my brake booster and the vacuum to my EVAP purge solenoid.

Later I have a 1/4 MPT-3/8 HB 90* I'm going to tap a hole for so I have a vacuum source for my MAP sensor.

I bought so Goodyear J30R9 fuel injection hose today also. I bought 2 feet of it. I'm sure it'll be enough. If not I'll get more. (EDIT: I bought 3/8 fuel hose. The feed line and return line are different sizes. The return line is bigger. If it weren't for the flared end on the fatter return line 3/8 would be perfect. I can't get the 3/8 hose up far enough to get the clamp on good. Maybe 1/2 fuel line would be better for the return line. The 3/8 is perfect on the intake side return line though.)

When I do more to get the intake ready I'll post up.

[12sws27]

I had to edit the above post again......I had some false info on the fitting and tap sizes again... I got it right this time. :o

I plugged up the EGR hole under the plenum today and drilled and tapped the hole for my 90* 1/4MPT-3/8HB which is going to be my MAP sensors vacuum supply. (Edit: a 1/4MPT-1/4HB 90* fitting would work better. 1/4 hose fit the map better when you remove it's seal)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/marineintake.jpg


Now it's time to wire the injectors to the 12 pin MSD Deutsch connector I have.

[XTREME80]

Ooooooooooh Purdy..... More pics now! J/K:D

[Bone Crusher]

Hey Scott, can you next day air that to me and I will pay you for a new one...LMAO

[XTREME80]

Hehehehehe!

[12sws27]

Hey Scott, can you next day air that to me and I will pay you for a new one...LMAO

NooOOOOOoooo!!!!

Just think, it cost about $50 to ship it slow and cheap. I bet it would be like $150 to over night....

[rentedmule]

Looks great Scott - the more guys that do this now, the more knowledge there'll be for me to tap into later!

[s106banger]

i will be doing my cam, heads, and intake swap this week. i picked up a set of the blue 39lb injectors at a swap meet yesterday for 75 bucks.

[12sws27]

I'm in the middle of the install right now. I started on it last night. I realized that the hose barb fitting for the water pump bypass hose is to small. It's 5/8. I edited post 61.

I should have it on and running today. Unless I find something else I need to do. If so I'm screwed until Monday because my wifes taking the other truck to work right now as I type..

[12sws27]

Looks great Scott - the more guys that do this now, the more knowledge there'll be for me to tap into later!

Good deal!

[12sws27]

Man if it's not one thing it's another. I'm going to have to go back in this thread a change a few things.

[firefighter]

Are you SOL or are you gonna be able to power through?

[12sws27]

Are you SOL or are you gonna be able to power through?

I have no way to the parts store. If I didn't have my son I'd just walk. Parts store is only about 8 blocks away. Why Pam had to go to fukn work at 11am today I have no clue. It's nice how she told me about it when she got home last night at 2am.....I so wanna choke some one now. I figured Saturday night when I started this I would have access to a car till at least 2-3pm. I ran out and got some things I thought I needed and were the right parts. I was wrong again though....I going through a lot of trail and error here. Buy thr time I'm done I might not have a lot of good pics but I will have plenty of detail on line and fitting sizes.

Some things I can just kinda rig up with what I got but others can't. I'm just going to have to finish tomorrow. Which really sucks but I'll manage.

[Bone Crusher]

Shoot I would have dropped her off at work and picked her up.

[firefighter]

It's a shame that those of us that really get along don't live closer.... but then again if we lived closer we might not get along. LMAO!

[12sws27]

Shoot I would have dropped her off at work and picked her up.She gets off real late and I don't want to wake my son up to go with me.


It's a shame that those of us that really get along don't live closer.... but then again if we lived closer we might not get along. LMAO!If I really really needed to have the truck done tonight I could always call up someone. This is more like a "I really really want the truck done" thing. Not a "truck needs to be done"

I almost got it all done. I'm going to go out and start the wiring process on the engine side. Shouldn't take to long.

All my attempts at doing the swap so it didn't look like a rigged up mess failed real bad. Fuk it. It should work and that really the only thing that matter to me. Right now I have it so the only thing that really needs to be changed is the water pump bypass hose fitting. I removed the 3/8MPT-3/8HB and just clamped the hose to the threads on the 90* Should be good enough to fire the truck up. Probably even to drive the truck to work in the morning. I'm not sure it'll be done by then though. I don't really want to crawl under the truck to change the oil at night.

I had a real scare for a second....I just snipped the stock engine connector off and then realized that there are all these pink wires and that they were probably supposed to be matched with the right wire....then I check and they are hot, constant with ignition on. So the pink can go any where...

For a few minute there I thought I messed up real good and would be trying to wire this ***** all through the week or longer. :o

[s106banger]

lol. sounds like a very entertaining weekend.

[12sws27]

lol. sounds like a very entertaining weekend.

Yup! Still at it! I said I was going to wire it up last post but I didn't....

Instead I buttoned everything else down. All I got let is to pin the new male connector, fill it with water and fire it up. Then make sure nothing is leaking and when I'm satisfied that I didn't screw something up. I'll drain the water, fill with coolant and change the oil and filter. I got a sh!t load of pics that I'll post up tomorrow.

[s106banger]

good, im getting up early tomorrow taking everything off the truck. ill take pics too. there always cool to show off to people that dont know anything about cars. lol.

also, took the jammer off today. it makes a clicking noise. lol. i think its past due for a rebuild.

[12sws27]

The Jammer shouldn't cost you to much to rebuild. I'm wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being around $300.

[s106banger]

when it goes back on its going to be intercoolered, no questions asked. i know exactly how to do it. but to rebuild it plus an intercooler will cost around 500.. so it wont be on for a little bit..

[12sws27]

Ta Da!! I'm done! To my surprise the truck fired right up with out a problem. Not one hose, line, wire or plug of any kind left off and/or leaking!

It is running pretty rich though. Seems to idle fine. Cruises just like it did before. Start to get on the throttle and it starts to pull nice then gets real rich and bogs a little. I didn't try but I'm sure I can run WOT until I get it tuned. A/F ratios at maybe 50% throttle position drops down to 10. My AEM gauge won't read anything lower then that. So it's rich! Right now it just has the injectors that came with the marine intake. So I have to find out what their size is at my fuel pressure and write it into the PCM. Then I'll see how that goes and go from there with the tuning. That's for another day. Right now it is just fine to drive back and forth to work.

[firefighter]

Kick Ass bro.

[XTREME80]

Sweet! Pics now, J/K :D

Congrats Scott.

[Bone Crusher]

F that....pics now!!!

[12sws27]

All the pics are just going to be random because I don't feel like typing right now. I'll Edit my posts to be as helpfull as possible later.

I just edited the first post with all the hose sizes that I needed.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00260.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00259.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00258.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00257.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00256.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00255.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00254.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00253.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00252.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00251.jpg

[12sws27]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00250.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00249.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00248.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00247.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00246.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00245.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00244.jpg
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00241.jpg

[12sws27]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00240.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00239.jpg
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00237.jpg
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00235.jpg
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[12sws27]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00230.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00229.jpg
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/how%20to%20pics/DSC00227.jpg

[XTREME80]

Drooling on my keyboard. This is going to be one of my upgrades also when i get enough saved up for a huffer. I would love to go the 2114 upgrade but i definitely like this! Again sweet ass job Scott!

[12sws27]

Drooling on my keyboard. This is going to be one of my upgrades also when i get enough saved up for a huffer. I would love to go the 2114 upgrade but i definitely like this! Again sweet ass job Scott!

Thanks! If it were not for all my fitting mishaps and the rain. I could say it was a walk in the park. Wasn't real difficult though. It can easily be done in a day.

[Mikz86TA]

The wire harness is nice and clean...godd job :)
Looks like the fuel lines vs. plug wires was a bit of a challenge.



When Im ready to do this myself I am recruiting you.....how does a nice vacation to the greater Tallahassee area sound? lol

[12sws27]

The wire harness is nice and clean...godd job :)
Looks like the fuel lines vs. plug wires was a bit of a challenge.



When Im ready to do this myself I am recruiting you.....how does a nice vacation to the greater Tallahassee area sound? lol

If I'm up there I would. If not I'm only a phone call, e-mail, PM or post away.

I made the fuel lines before I put the ign cap on and plugged the wires in. Should of measured out how long I needed them to be with the cap and wires plugged in and then removed them for room to put the lines on. I could of ran them longer and when over the plug wires. I will more then likely make some changes here and there down the road.

[Bone Crusher]

After you add your picture comments Scott I am going to try and go back and add a complete parts list all in one post. It will make it easier to know up front what is needed for this install and then the rest of the thread will be install pics and procedures.

[spideyjected]

very interesting (o:

[12sws27]

After you add your picture comments Scott I am going to try and go back and add a complete parts list all in one post. It will make it easier to know up front what is needed for this install and then the rest of the thread will be install pics and procedures.

Ok, a parts list would be awesome. Just remember my install will be different then others. For example, I don't use my heater, cruise control and I have an extra vacuum line going to my pressure relief valve. That and some might want there lines routed differently. So I think that what would be most important and would of helped me a lot more, are all the stock hose sizes. That way the next guy can see what I did and route all the stuff more to his liking.

[12sws27]

Here a question I have, I asked it in an email I sent to UR50SLO, I'll ask it in the FTV6 thread and I'll ask here.


I hooked up a fuel pressure gauge today to see what my pressure is on the marine intake. It read 43psi key on engine of, 50 psi engine running and 59-60 psi when I hit the throttle. This sound right? The pressure for the stock set up was 55 psi key on engine off. Of course I realize that the stock check valve is before the FPR and the marine intakes is after.

When I figure what the injector size is with my fuel pressure, I use the FP I get when the engine is running throttle open right? I have HPtuners and want to get this thing leaned out. At part throttle my AEM wide band is at 10.1 which is as low as it reads.

[rentedmule]

Awesome job Scott! That fuel pressure sounds ok to me

[12sws27]

Awesome job Scott! That fuel pressure sounds ok to me

Thanks Tyson.

[Bone Crusher]

I haven't tested my FP since I popped the walbro on, but I was at 52 key on 58-60 running before I changed the pump so im sure your pressure is good

[Dogsofjune]

With that fuel pressure and the new injectors, what is the time of the injector pulse? Etc.
Maybe do a little compare with my tune and get some ideas.
I'll have to wait till I get home to look at my tune. I'm just thinkin out loud, so to speak, so I remember to look at this later.

[12sws27]

With that fuel pressure and the new injectors, what is the time of the injector pulse? Etc.
Maybe do a little compare with my tune and get some ideas.
I'll have to wait till I get home to look at my tune. I'm just thinkin out loud, so to speak, so I remember to look at this later.

IDK yet. I still have to data log it.

[12sws27]

In hpt with my 98 pcm I have "flow rate" Which I changed to 27lb/hr. Then there's "Offset" right now it's at 0.941 msec. Does that have to be changed? Does the offset change in relation to injector size? In other words, would the new larger injectors have a diferent offset then the stock ones?

[Dogsofjune]

Ooooo, I have to look when I get home.
It's one of those things I know how to do, but am piss poor at explaining it.

[12sws27]

Ooooo, I have to look when I get home.
It's one of those things I know how to do, but am piss poor at explaining it.
Problem is. You have the newer PCM so thing show up different. This is going to take a bit to figure out but so help me god I'll get it right even if it kills one of you.....

[Dogsofjune]

This is going to take a bit to figure out but so help me god I'll get it right even if it kills one of you.....
Sounds like we need a poll......

[Jongo88]

Stripper pole FTW!!!

[12sws27]

Ok. So buy entering in 27.7lb/hr under "Flow Rate". That put my LTFTs right at 0. But...When I tap the throttle it bogs.... Now what?

[King_Ice_flash]

I'm still not convinced that my pulse width and voltage correction are correct on mine. It would be nice if manufacturers would publish this information.

[12sws27]

Where the hell is Zygoat? He's got the POS black box pcm like me...

[s106banger]

hey scott, wheres your coolant temp sensor at?

[oddball]

Thank you for this thread Scotty,I know what I am NOT going to do!lol

[Bone Crusher]

hey scott, wheres your coolant temp sensor at?


Should be on the driver side of the block near the header. One wire lead/ plug to it unless the earlier second gen was different.

[12sws27]

hey scott, wheres your coolant temp sensor at?

On my year it's on the head....or is it the block... Either way, it doesn't go by the t-stat like on some years.

[King_Ice_flash]

Where the hell is Zygoat? He's got the POS black box pcm like me...
*Cough* Upgrade the PCM to a 0411.

[12sws27]

*Cough* Upgrade the PCM to a 0411.

I've looked into it. I wanna see the out come of the few other guys doing it. I think they were having problems.

I could buy one tuned for my set up plus plugs for 275 I think it was. But I know I can get it don't cheaper then that.

When I think the swap is necessary then I'll do it. Might be soon the way things are going...

[Dogsofjune]

PM 98SS, he tuned the 98 pcm with a 2114 setup.

[12sws27]

PM 98SS, he tuned the 98 pcm with a 2114 setup.
I've got the pin out to swap the pins from a 1998 pcm to the 0411 on my desk top. From what I've read it's really not that hard. All you have to do is swap the plugs going to the pcm and use a different knock sensor.

I plan to do it one day. Just not top of my list right now. If I continue to mod I'm sure it will be needed.

Tuning this pcm will keep me busy for awhile. I am going back into, "don't spend a dime" mode for a bit. I want to work on getting some caltrac type bars, better rear tires and probably water/meth inj. I'm pretty sure when I get the bars I'm going with drop leafs to get that spring plate away from the ground some. So it's gonna cost me a little bit.

[s106banger]

On my year it's on the head....or is it the block... Either way, it doesn't go by the t-stat like on some years.

see, mine is by the t-stat.. so i need to figure out where to move it to. ill prob put it in the other head...

you dont have to swap knock sensors for the 0411 pcm, you change the type of knock sensor thats programed in the pcm with tuning software, hpt...

and for autos for 96-97 you have to run 4 wires from the trans, the 98-00 might be different.. ?

other than that its just swapping pins..

[12sws27]

see, mine is by the t-stat.. so i need to figure out where to move it to. ill prob put it in the other head...

you dont have to swap knock sensors for the 0411 pcm, you change the type of knock sensor thats programed in the pcm with tuning software, hpt...

and for autos for 96-97 you have to run 4 wires from the trans, the 98-00 might be different.. ?

other than that its just swapping pins..

Oh ok, cool! I knew there was something just didn't know what it was exactly.

Feels like the marine intake with just the injectors it come with made the truck pull harder. That's the butt dyno though. By the time I get to the track I should have this PE thing figured out.

I've been messing with the tune and it seems that I just might being getting the hang of it. I got part throttle driving pretty damn good. No more bogging. Seems 27.9lb/hr did the trick. I might try 28.18 tomorrow. That what the 24lb or @ 60psi. WOT is still in the 10s though.

[12sws27]

I've since raised the flow rate to 28.18. Which is what the 24lb marine injectors are rated at @60psi.

After I got the fuel rate right I still had to deal with real rich AFR while in power enrichment (PE) My PE tables were set high by pcmforless to try to get the fuel needed out of the POS stock poppet injectors. So when I added bigger injectors I was spraying way to much fuel.

I backed those down to where it was a little leaner then what the stock tune had them set at and I'm getting AFR in the high 11 and 12s before 4k RPMS and low 11's after 4krpms. I tried leaning it out a little past 4k RPM but I got Knock Retard. So I put it back. Pulls harder.

Then I added 2* of timing across the board. All good, no knock and pulls harder yet.

I did some small changes in other areas too. It was all just little things here and there and I don't think it made much of a difference. I just went off a few of you guys's and some others tunes. Thanks for the help.

After all that was done and WOT was good and part throttle driving got better I was still having a lean spike problem. It was occurring after I tapped the throttle. The lean spike (after some advice and a lot of searching and reading) seems to have to do with Transient fuel. On my 98 black box, under engine>fuel control>Transient there is, "fuel to wall impact factor". I doubled that and the lean spike went from high 18's down to 16s. Most to all of the stumbling and hesitation went away also. Some of that might have had to do with adding timing too though. Now I'll try to double that and see what the results are. If anyone is curious as to what Transient fuel is, read here>>http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10872

[Bone Crusher]

Good to hear!!!

[XTREME80]

X2, Going to the track tonight?

[12sws27]

X2, Going to the track tonight?

No, can't. The weather sucks anyways.


I just realized something.....all this time I've had my editor settings on beginner....:o... I just set it to advanced and all these new perimeters popped up...

I need to back track and look over somethings now. So of the perimeter I thought I didn't have. I do have. I'm retarded.

I still don't have access to a lot of things you 01+ guys do but I don't have a little as I thought. Man I'm such a nOoB!

[Dogsofjune]

I wondered about that. Every time I thought of a possibility that may help, it wasn't listed.
I hate tuning. Been so long since I even messed with mine, I forget what I'm doing anymore.

[12sws27]

The lack of help I'm getting on HPTF, the differences of opinion on what needs to be done about these lean spikes, (Which I'm getting from searching the topic over there) and the the transient fuel thing being so complicated has me so confused right now....Makes it difficult.

[Mikz86TA]

Just set everything on high!




j/k

[Dogsofjune]

The lack of help I'm getting on HPTF, the differences of opinion on what needs to be done about these lean spikes, (Which I'm getting from searching the topic over there) and the the transient fuel thing being so complicated has me so confused right now....Makes it difficult.
I know the feeling. I went to someone local and gleaned as much as I could.

[XTREME80]

Just set everything on high!




j/k



Hahahaha. That was a good one. :p

Well Scott i guess you get another week or so to play before the track. Then you can really spin down the track Hehehehe.

List of things to get......
1.) I see traction bars in the future. :D
2.) Some sticky tires. :D

[12sws27]

Hahahaha. That was a good one. :p

Well Scott i guess you get another week or so to play before the track. Then you can really spin down the track Hehehehe.

List of things to get......
1.) I see traction bars in the future. :D
2.) Some sticky tires. :D
Yes, these things I will need. :) I gotta get a water/meth kit and some more exhaust work.

[Mikz86TA]

Yeah but the best experience comes from tuning now.
When my TA still had the 305, I put on the Holley 750. Learned alot about hoe to tune a Holley even yho it woulod never work. Now with a 750 on a 350, its still too much but easier to know how to tune.
Make sense?

[12sws27]

Yep.

[rabidbandit]

I've since raised the flow rate to 28.18. Which is what the 24lb marine injectors are rated at @60psi.

After I got the fuel rate right I still had to deal with real rich AFR while in power enrichment (PE) My PE tables were set high by pcmforless to try to get the fuel needed out of the POS stock poppet injectors. So when I added bigger injectors I was spraying way to much fuel.

I backed those down to where it was a little leaner then what the stock tune had them set at and I'm getting AFR in the high 11 and 12s before 4k RPMS and low 11's after 4krpms. I tried leaning it out a little past 4k RPM but I got Knock Retard. So I put it back. Pulls harder.

Then I added 2* of timing across the board. All good, no knock and pulls harder yet.

I did some small changes in other areas too. It was all just little things here and there and I don't think it made much of a difference. I just went off a few of you guys's and some others tunes. Thanks for the help.

After all that was done and WOT was good and part throttle driving got better I was still having a lean spike problem. It was occurring after I tapped the throttle. The lean spike (after some advice and a lot of searching and reading) seems to have to do with Transient fuel. On my 98 black box, under engine>fuel control>Transient there is, "fuel to wall impact factor". I doubled that and the lean spike went from high 18's down to 16s. Most to all of the stumbling and hesitation went away also. Some of that might have had to do with adding timing too though. Now I'll try to double that and see what the results are. If anyone is curious as to what Transient fuel is, read here>>http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10872

Scott,

I have the PW offsets, small pulse adjust, small pulse threshold, true IFR for the stock marine injectors which are GM part#
12561462 (29.63lbs/hr @58) after injector testing. PM me for details:D

I have the same issues with my setup....lean on tipin...and your PE is definitely too rich...mine was 10.5 to 10.2 on my LC-1. Smoked like a diesel...lol:p I'm screwing with the Impact tables too as these injectors have different placement in the runners and spray patterns are wider.;)

[12sws27]

Cool! PM sent!

[12sws27]

Stop teasing me Chris and let me get that info! :D

[Dogsofjune]

Cool, I can bring a MAF sensor with me.
Should go out in the morning. It's a NAPA part. Used it for less than 1500 miles before I figured out the MAF wasn't the problem and threw the stock one back on it.

[s106banger]

im currently messing with the cobra 39lb injectors... slowly i might add.

[12sws27]

im currently messing with the cobra 39lb injectors... slowly i might add.

Let me no how it goes.

Right now my IDC with the marine injectors are fine. They rarely get to 90%. So I'm going to stick with them until I need more. My timing in the 100-105 kpa range is a 1-3* over stock depending on the rpm range with no KR.

Funny thing is I do get KR around 70-80 kpa area. I think it happens while under load. Like going up hill or doing burn outs.

I went to the track last night. First run was a 9.57 which isn't my best over all but the truck feels stronger. My be I'm spinning more IDK. I was only getting KR in the burn out box. I only need to give the truck 20-30% throttle to get the tires spinning so it's not going into PE. So I gotta figure out what I need to do about that. I guess I'll just pull a little timing in that area.

[s106banger]

so far the truck feels stock, i changes the impact gain like you did and the injector size and everything seems to be making it better. at wot im at 45% duty cycle n/a with the 39lb-ers.

[12sws27]

so far the truck feels stock, i changes the impact gain like you did and the injector size and everything seems to be making it better. at wot im at 45% duty cycle n/a with the 39lb-ers.

Awesome! Keep us updated at what you do when it comes to tuning.

My update so far.

Since I see a lot of folks that run MAF still tune LTFT with the MAF unpluged PE set to 100% and logging LTFT vs map vs RPM in the primary VE table. Then changing the Secondary to match. (i.e. SD tuning). I went ahead and did it anyway till I got my LTFT close to -5% and under. After that I plugged my MAF back in turned the MAF SES lights on and set my PE back to where I like it and drove around awhile.

Today I found out how to set up a histogram to log my LTFT vs MAF hz. Once I did that I started messing with the maf hz in the idle area. It was 2896 hz down. I logged idling in gear, in park, neutral, ac on, off and a combination of them all. Since my LTFT were pulling a lot of fuel (e.g. -15) I reduced the numbers in my Airflow vs MAF Hz table from 2896 hz down till I got the LTFT I wanted. (i.e., -3 to 0)

This week I'll work on the cruising areas.

[12sws27]

Cruising LTFT are dialed in. That was easy enough. Now I gotta figure out how the tune the MAF for WOT.

I still have a small amount of knock retard in the lower RPMs, High MAP Kpa areas. Only seems to happen when the ECT are above 178 and the IAT are about 130. Might just be I need to remove timing in my Main table. I'm still running the Jammer tune timing settings which are 4* higher at MAP kpa 95 and under. So maybe I just need to pull some timing there. IDK yet though. I'm going to set the IAT timing table back to stock first and try that. PCM4less had in set to pull less timing then my stock blazer tune. Which is odd since S/C blow hot ass air....

[12sws27]

Oh and I got to look into transient fueling more. Because the lean spike on accel hasn't went away completely and the rich dip on decel is just as bad as ever. If I keep raising the impact factor and lower the boiling time the truck wont idle. So there got to be something else to it.

[XTREME80]

You want to finish mine next Scott? Hehehehehehe. Glad you is getting better with it. 6 months from now you will be able to do all of this in your sleep. :D

[12sws27]

You want to finish mine next Scott? Hehehehehehe. Glad you is getting better with it. 6 months from now you will be able to do all of this in your sleep. :D

Yeah if I keep staying up late and obsessively reading crap over on HPTF I will. :o

[spideyjected]

This really is fascinating Scott.

[XTREME80]

Hehehehe!

[s106banger]

youll get to do it all over again when you finally get a 0411! lol.

[12sws27]

youll get to do it all over again when you finally get a 0411! lol.
At least I'll know what I'm doing right?

[rabidbandit]

At least I'll know what I'm doing right?

Nah...you'll be fine...I run a 2002 and a 2005 PCM...different OS's...but same Params....and going from a 98....you wont have any issues....just a little more flexibility in tuning and options for custom OS's;) I'm working on the lean spike too still...but the rich decel is gone....just have the lean spike on tip-in:rolleyes:

[12sws27]

Nah...you'll be fine...I run a 2002 and a 2005 PCM...different OS's...but same Params....and going from a 98....you wont have any issues....just a little more flexibility in tuning and options for custom OS's;) I'm working on the lean spike too still...but the rich decel is gone....just have the lean spike on tip-in:rolleyes:

What'd ya do about the rich decel?

[rabidbandit]

No problems in general....adding the correct injector values solved my issues except the lean issue;)

[12sws27]

If you ever plan on removing the fuel rails later on and adding bigger injectors the upper radiator hoses stock location makes it a PITMFA. So if you have an Efan and haven't relocated it yet do so. I hate the cluster fuk I got going on on that side of the engine with all the jammer sh!t and stock crap all crammed in there.

Changing injectors with the marine intake is a lot easier then with the stock system but it can still be a PITA if you don't take it into consideration when doing the swap.

[rabidbandit]

Yeah^^^ even without a jammer...ya still gotta bend the crap outta the hose to clear the rails. Also...speaking of coolant hoses, dunno what most of ya have done...but i just capped the coolant bypass....no issues and cools better too. When open, it would send the hot water back into the pump to be recirculated...cost me 10deg on temp. It was only there to heat up the block faster in colder conditions allowing it to reach optimum temp for emissions.

[XTREME80]

Yeah i was thinking of that when/if i can ever get that far for an intake swap.

[12sws27]

SOoooo.....I've been trying to tune this thing for like what, 2 months now? Seemed like I was just getting no where. First time I did something like 30 logs and I just couldn't get the AFR's on SD mode right. So I found out I had some setting in my AFR WB PID not matching my AFR error PID. So I start over....still no luck...I had already tried 3 different set of injector specs not including stock. I was still having the start ups that pegged lean. Start up AFR is supposed to be richer then 14.7. Commanded start up AFR is something like 13 then gradually works it's way up to 14.7. Mine was sky rocking to around 17 at idle. First start after sitting wasn't to bad but was still high.

I started setting different injector control tables back to stock to see what did what. Sure enough...once I set my Offsets to stock my AFR matched my Commanded AFR. SO I started over again. I second guessed my self for a second. Reason was because after I was sure it was the Offsets that were wrong I went to the truck, fired it up, then I'll be damned if the AFR weren't pegged lean again even though the offsets were stock.

It was heat soak..... Fuel trims are off while tuning the VE in speed density. So there is nothing to keep the AFR right when the intake air temps are hot as hell from heat soak. This is where the MAF really helps. This kinda thing I read is one of the big down sides of going with a MAFless SD only tune.

So the stock offsets did work fine. I just had to pop the hood to help stop heat soaks between logs while I was making adjustment in the tune and re-writing the PCM.

With the right (or close to) injector specs, flow rate (which was 42lb/hr for me), I tuned my VE in about 4-5 tries and it took about the same to do the MAF. I started on it yesterday after work at about 5pm and was done and ready for WOT tuning by 9:30pm.

After that I have no bog and my AFRs are really close to the Commanded AFR. There is still a lean tip-in but it's not as bad. I'll keeps playing with Transient fuelling and PE untill I figure out how to get rid of it.

Rich decel before DFCO kicks in it still there. It's either has something to do with the injector control tables or the larger injector's pulse width just can't get short enough to be close to stoich. I think I can play with DFCO to get rid of it though. It's not a big deal really. It's just more of a gas wasting thing then anything.

[disrespecteds10]

Can someone clarify the injector specs? I'm seeing inof all over....
Are the stock injectors(poppets) 19's or 21#/hr?
What PSI is that rating at and how can you be sure that's what theyre flowing?
Dropping the pressure raises flow, correct?
Does anyone know if the injectors for the 99 Yukon/Tahoe will fit in the spots on this intake and fuel line? Are they the same rating as stock?
Sorry for all the questions.
Oh, nice work! Let me make one suggestion though. I know many dont like to take the whole P/S&A/C bracket off, but the way I do it at work is remove the bolts/nuts above P/S pullet, and loosen the lower left nut or bolt at bottom left of P/S pulley, then a little pry at top of bracket and intake will move bracket forward enough without grinding. The perk, no unbolting the P/S pump and fighting to get it back in =)

[12sws27]

Can someone clarify the injector specs? I'm seeing inof all over....
Are the stock injectors(poppets) 19's or 21#/hr?
What PSI is that rating at and how can you be sure that's what theyre flowing?
Dropping the pressure raises flow, correct?
Does anyone know if the injectors for the 99 Yukon/Tahoe will fit in the spots on this intake and fuel line? Are they the same rating as stock?
Sorry for all the questions.
Oh, nice work! Let me make one suggestion though. I know many dont like to take the whole P/S&A/C bracket off, but the way I do it at work is remove the bolts/nuts above P/S pullet, and loosen the lower left nut or bolt at bottom left of P/S pulley, then a little pry at top of bracket and intake will move bracket forward enough without grinding. The perk, no unbolting the P/S pump and fighting to get it back in =)

IDK what the popets are rated at. All I know is on my 98 stock tune the Flow Rate was 23.1lb/hr in the tune.

My best guess is that the poppets are 22lb/hr at 43.4psi. So at 48psi fuel pressure they come out to be 23.1lb/hr. So the marine 24s would be 25lb/hr.

If you're wondering if they V8 Vortecs have bigger injectors, they don't. They're the same size.

Raising fuel pressure raises the injector flow rate. That's why some use FMUs. It raises the fuel pressure so the injectors flow more fuel. You have to be careful when doing that because some injectors (like delphi) will just shut off.

The reason for grinding that one area on the bracket the A/C compressor bolts to is so you wont have to unbolt the AC/PS bracket at all. You compressor will only have 3 bolts but all you need to do to remove the intake in remove those 3 bolts and set the compressor to the side.

[disrespecteds10]

Darn, now I cant remember if the 5.3 injectors were 19 or 21 rated. I'll check the sheet i wrote it down on.
I understand the reason for grinding the bracket, I just dont see why anyone would want to when it doesnt take much to do what i mentioned, its not like you have to unbolt the pump itself from the bracket.
All in all; once my place is done, this is added to top of list for the engine. I will be frame off restoring this S10! its got 215k miles and deserves it! Manual 4wd stick shift....ah, so much less to go wrong ;)