Doesn't start on the first crank

[Bone Crusher]

Alright.....02' 4.3L S10 69000 miles

Couple of weeks ago it started to slowly get harder to start. No SES light or I would throw the codes at you. FP gauge shows 60 lbs with key on. Start up, it drops to 58 lbs and with the engine running, it stabilizes at 53 lbs. I left the gauge on it and will check it in about 15-30 to see where I am at with pressure.

I was talking with Scott about a 4th to overdrive problem I had but that seemed to disappear. It would only occur when it would shift into OD and then I let off the gas, it would then jerk as to it not knowing whether to stay in OD or go back to 4th.

Any thoughts.....

[Jongo88]

Is it hard to start all the time or just on a cold start??

[Bone Crusher]

I would say if it sits for more than 30+ minutes before starting again

[Jongo88]

Try just turning the key to the on position for about 30 seconds then start it and see if it starts right up.

[Bone Crusher]

10 minutes out and pressure has dropped to 56#

[Bone Crusher]

Will have to wait a while, just started it about 10 mins ago

[csl2006]

tps?

[Jongo88]

tps?
Nope!

[csl2006]

... read this

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-throttle-position-sensor.html

[Bone Crusher]

I will put the voltage meter up to that next....

I misplaced my manual so if anyone has the numbers. Scotty said 5 ohms, can anyone confirm that?

[Jongo88]

That's what wrong with it...

[csl2006]

chris I ran out and checked my manual it says 4.5-5volts

[12sws27]

I will put the voltage meter up to that next....

I misplaced my manual so if anyone has the numbers. Scotty said 5v, can anyone confirm that?

"I think" it should be smooth from 0-5v. Should change V smoothly as you move the throttle. Not 100% sure though. I'm just going of of memory of some thing I think I remember reading in my Haynes.

[Jongo88]

If you check the volts you will have to wait longer to try it..lol.

[Jongo88]

"I think" it should be smooth from 0-5v. Should change V smoothly as you move the throttle. Not 100% sure though. I'm just going of of memory of some thing I think I remember reading in my Haynes.
You are right...

[12sws27]

That's what wrong with it...

Bite me old man! :p

[Jongo88]

Bite me old man! :p
Lick the sack young punk...

[12sws27]

You are right...

Well that's rare....

I got a question that should help Chris and I don't know the answer to. There are 3 pins. Which ones do you hook up to to check the TPS?

[Bone Crusher]

So is it Volts or Ohms....makes a difference LOL

[Jongo88]

Two of the three...:rolleyes:

[Jongo88]

So is it Volts or Ohms....makes a difference LOL
How do you want to check it? You can do it eather way.

[Bone Crusher]

Well that's rare....

I got a question that should help Chris and I don't know the answer to. There are 3 pins. Which ones do you hook up to to check the TPS?

Eny meny miny moe

[Jongo88]

You want to check it pluged in or unpluged??

[Bone Crusher]

Why would I have to wait to check the TPS? It shouldn't be a heat related sensor

[Jongo88]

Witch way do you want to check it??

[Bone Crusher]

I will unplug it and check the TPS itself

[SleeperSS]

If the fuel pressure is dropping, I'd say it's the check valve in the pump.

[Jongo88]

I will unplug it and check the TPS itself
Then you can't check volts then can you... lol.

[Jongo88]

I know... What a smart ass.

[Bone Crusher]

Then you can't check volts then can you... lol.

Duh

[csl2006]

I dunno If this could be it or not. What you explained happened to my buddies ranger and that was the problem. Hope you get it figured out. Time to go change the oil and head out to a football game.

[Jongo88]

I dunno If this could be it or not. What you explained happened to my buddies ranger and that was the problem. Hope you get it figured out. Time to go change the oil and head out to a football game.
Yea. I see what you mean there...

[csl2006]

eh oils still draining and ya ranger

[12sws27]

If the fuel pressure is dropping, I'd say it's the check valve in the pump.

Or the FPR , is leaking. I think the inj o-rings can leak and cause it too.

[Jongo88]

Or the FPR , is leaking. I think the inj o-rings can leak and cause it too.
Or the injector is cracked...

[12sws27]

Or the injector is cracked...

Or the truck back fired through the TB and the fuel injector feed lines are all melted...lol!

Hey Chris, Didn't you also say that some of you ignition parts were still original??

[Bone Crusher]

plugs and wires

[Jongo88]

You try it yet??

[Bone Crusher]

I am watching the USA world cup game

[12sws27]

plugs and wires

So your coil, cap and rotor have been changed?

Soccer is pretty ghey dude....

[Jongo88]

I am watching the USA world cup game
WTF.. I sittin here waiting to help and you are watching fvcking TV??
WTF!!!!










































LOL...:D

[Bone Crusher]

You're ghey...

Coil has not been changed and yes I am going to check the TPS now

[Jongo88]

I gots to cook dinner and eat... Back later...

[Bone Crusher]

Alright 5.5 volts constant with .5 volts at 0% and WOT it is 4.5 volts with smooth transition through the throttle range

[12sws27]

Now check your coil?

[Bone Crusher]

Where did you go John

[Jongo88]

I'm here

[Bone Crusher]

What you got next for me to check

[Jongo88]

Did it start right up??

[Bone Crusher]

notta

[Jongo88]

Did you try what I said?

[Bone Crusher]

Yep

[Jongo88]

Then that throws out what I was thinking.

[Bone Crusher]

You think it could be the coil.....how would I test that

[Jongo88]

You think it could be the coil.....how would I test that
Unplug the coil wire. Put it on your toungue and have your wife try to start it...

[Jongo88]

lol...:D

[Jongo88]

How does it run when it runs??

[Bone Crusher]

LMAO.....

It runs good when its running. Kinda feels sluggish though...minimal idling shake....

Fvck I will be back I gotta go help someone else out with a broken down car...

[12sws27]

Here ya go Chris, http://autorepair.about.com/od/troubleshooting/ss/coil-test-ohm.htm

[firefighter]

Holy Hell what did I miss? In the "olden days" I woulda said yer well plugs are leakin on the ole Q-jet. LMAO!

[pewter03zq8]

sounds like the fuel pump is bleeding down the pressure after it is shut off. Next time it has sat for awhile, try turning key on and off several times to run the pump,then try to start.

[Bone Crusher]

Well I checked the ignition coil today since I found my Haynes book. Definitely bad according to the manual since I was only pulling .001-.002 ohm when both the lead wires were tested.

[12sws27]

Are you glad you got all those diagnostic tool?

[Bone Crusher]

Well I had the meter. I went to Auto Zone like you said but they are pretty retarded up here. I asked for the FP gauge and he brought out this big ass box. I said WTH is that. It was their rental and told me it would be 150 bucks.... I told him he was an idiot and went to Advance to buy one for $40.

[csl2006]

I went to Auto Zone like you said but they are pretty retarded up here.


:D

[12sws27]

Well I had the meter. I went to Auto Zone like you said but they are pretty retarded up here. I asked for the FP gauge and he brought out this big ass box. I said WTH is that. It was their rental and told me it would be 150 bucks.... I told him he was an idiot and went to Advance to buy one for $40.

Worth every penny. :)

[Bone Crusher]

Yeppers

[Bone Crusher]

Well I checked the ignition coil today since I found my Haynes book. Definitely bad according to the manual since I was only pulling .001-.002 ohm when both the lead wires were tested.

Alright there is a correction here on the ignition coil....

Ohmmeter high scale test on new coil 8.4; old is 6.6 which is still within range

Primary resistance is the same for both

My question is will the high scale test be enough to cause my hard start. If I dont have to change the ign. coil out, I would rather use the money for wires and plugs. I had to buy a new belt for the underdrive pulley's which is a 92.3" belt for those that need a reminder. It sure did quiet things down a bunch and make things run a lot smoother. The other belt was definitely cracked and slipping.

[DEEZY]

sounds like the fuel pump is bleeding down the pressure after it is shut off. Next time it has sat for awhile, try turning key on and off several times to run the pump,then try to start.

Did you try this?

[DEEZY]

This is what it will sound like....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRA_mIqcneY

[Bone Crusher]

I did try that and it started on the first crank. I get the FP sound like that but it doesn't sound like a dying moan. It sounds pretty strong and stays at a constant noise.

[Bone Crusher]

This is what it will sound like....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRA_mIqcneY


FP was tested and is within normal limits, so its not the pump.



I am going to have to pull the upper plenum off because I was taking off from a light today and pretty much WOT with A/C on. Started smelling heavy gas vapors from the vents. The smell died down and decided to do it again at another light and same thing sooooo FPR or leaky injector?

[firefighter]

Hell just convert it to a Marine Manifold. If you wanna do that turbo you are going to need it any ways.

[Bone Crusher]

I dont have a problem doing that but I guess no one here can answer the question about needing a tune right away with the marine intake install. I will go check some other forums and see if I cant find it out.

[firefighter]

I thought it was needed right out of the shoot....... But IDK for sure. I thought it was talked about in the thread over at fullthrottlev6.

[Bone Crusher]

Hmm let me go check it out

[firefighter]

Post #3 near the bottom......

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50198

[Bone Crusher]

Yep....thanks man

"Tuning.... Tuning... That's what is going to make or break these setups.
If it's not tuned right or skimp on fueling it correctly/timing/settings you'll be looking at a yard orniment with a blown engine. 4.3L don't take detonation well. It wipes the mains right out of them.
3.8L buicks are more forgiving and just blow head gaskets. We've got too much clamping force on our 4.3L head to blow them out. "

[firefighter]

no problem...

[Bone Crusher]

http://sn134w.snt134.mail.live.com/att/GetAttachment.aspx?tnail=0&messageId=aa78a68b-84ae-11df-8e1d-00215ad7e9be&Aux=4%7C0%7C8CCE6D2952B7090%7C%7C

[DEEZY]

FP was tested and is within normal limits, so its not the pump.



I am going to have to pull the upper plenum off because I was taking off from a light today and pretty much WOT with A/C on. Started smelling heavy gas vapors from the vents. The smell died down and decided to do it again at another light and same thing sooooo FPR or leaky injector?

Not trying to say it's the pump. We're saying it's the check valve in the pump.

[IceDraken]

How long has it been since you had your plenum off and checked your spider injectors seals underneath?

Reading through everything, I didn't see anywhere that you said you had a fuel leak where you could see it (outside of the engine).

[12sws27]

Not trying to say it's the pump. We're saying it's the check valve in the pump.

I had some one say that might be the issue with mine sometime back because my FP bleed off pretty quick. I know to test for it you have to block/clamp off the return line.

My question is WTF is it and what does it look like? Does it have another name? I can seem to find it on parts sites.

Chris, the marine intake eventually needs tuning. If you don't tune it will just run a little rich till you do. It's like taking out 24lb/hr injectors and putting in 26lb/hr injectors and not tuning for it.

[Bone Crusher]

FPR was changed and there were no leaks after pulling the upper plenum off and hooking everything back up. I am kind of glad I got to rip into a little of the motor to see more as a learning experience.

I will do the marine intake a little later when I have some extra cash.

[Jongo88]

It's been 8 hours... You have it on yet...lol.

[spideyjected]

I bet he does. Chris probably got one of his Hourly installments of mad cash and then put the intake on. lol.

[Bone Crusher]

Not trying to say it's the pump. We're saying it's the check valve in the pump.

So I pull the pump to get to the check valve, is that something I can replace or does the whole pump have to be replaced?

Thanks for everyone's help thus far.

[spideyjected]

I think the check valve is an integrated part of the pump "not sure it can be replaced seperately". I know it's not identical, but the check valve went out in my last Bosch fuel pump, "you could tell because it would bleed off pressure very rapidly", and the pump gave out not much after.

[Bone Crusher]

Fuel pump is on its last leg.....its started to sputter/grind this morning on prime. I dont know how I am going to get this bed off my truck.....BOOOOOOOOOOO

[Jongo88]

You don't have to take the bed off. Just pull all the bolts and the fill hoses and lift the drivers side up and prop a 2x4 under it or I used a milk crate on the tire when I did mine.

[spideyjected]

That's exactly how my last pump died... You couldn't even hear the Bosch running, then the bleed down started and then it got loud.

[firefighter]

Do the "Walbro" mod while yu are there. You think you got it bad I got a freakin Blazer. I'll have to drop the tank! You are making me nervous man our trucks are the same year but I have more mileage (I think).

[spideyjected]

two words, Access Panel...

(o;

[firefighter]

They have that under the carpet?!?!?!?!?!?!? Well then HELLS Yeah! lol

I really need to get the manual for this truck. Either Chiltons or the.... I can't remember the name of the factory brand.

[Jongo88]

They have that under the carpet?!?!?!?!?!?!? Well then HELLS Yeah! lol

I really need to get the manual for this truck. Either Chiltons or the.... I can't remember the name of the factory brand.
After you cut one... lol.

[spideyjected]

Ricky and I both made access panels in our floors. I've had mine apart a few times now and LOVE it!

[Bone Crusher]

They have that under the carpet?!?!?!?!?!?!? Well then HELLS Yeah! lol

I really need to get the manual for this truck. Either Chiltons or the.... I can't remember the name of the factory brand.


You actually thought you had a panel? Mwuahahahhahahahahahaha!!!

Our trucks are cool, but they are not that cool! :D

[Bone Crusher]

PS I drove my truck to my wife's work since I work in Orlando near Islands of Adventure 3.5 days a week. So if it poo's out then it will poo out on her.......is that bad of me?

I told her to to turn the key on and count to 5 and then try and start it and told her I would call her parents to let them know that she may need a ride home from work today

[firefighter]

LMAO! On many of the previous statements.

[Jongo88]

You beter hope it starts.. Or you are going to pay for that one... lol.

[Bone Crusher]

I started it and turned it off a handful of times today to make sure it worked for her.....or did I just wear it down some more....LOL

[Jongo88]

LOL... If you have my luck you killed it..

[XTREME80]

Wifey is going to be pissed if you leave her stranded! LOL

[Jongo88]

The worst thing if it dies on I4 in the fast lane...

[XTREME80]

Hahaha. The last time i was in FL. there was no speed limit, Crap i was running down one of them major interstates at 95mph and still getting run over. That would suck though.

[Bone Crusher]

She only works about 7-8 miles from home and she has a couple of friends that can give her a ride home if she needs.

[spideyjected]

Hahaha. The last time i was in FL. there was no speed limit, Crap i was running down one of them major interstates at 95mph and still getting run over. That would suck though.
The last time I was in Florida, we crossed the state line and immediately saw 10 white hairs in matching red corvettes doing no less than 100 by my estimation...

[Bone Crusher]

There are the occasional racers, but for the most part, people drive 80-85 here. I4 is a speed trap every couple of miles......

[Jongo88]

When I go I4 to Daytona it is 80 to 90 the whole trip.

[12sws27]

I got my Walbro from eBay for less than $100 shipped Chris. I think it was like $95.
Here's the eBay seller I bought mine from>>>>http://stores.ebay.com/MK3TUNER

I haven't messed with mine yet, But I'm pretty sure all you really need to do the swap in in the kit. Only thing I would change/do different if the hose. The hose that comes with it is J30R9 witch is supposed to be fine. J30R10 is definitely fine. Napa is supposed to carry it.

Or....you can used the accordion type fuel line which is what's on there from the factory. I'ts what I'm doing. You can get it from here, http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/kits.html

The 8" flex line in the one used for us. You can also order J30R10 hose from them if that the way you wanna go.

[Jongo88]

Is it still running???

[csl2006]

x2.

[Jongo88]

What about now???:D

[csl2006]

hey john....

[Bone Crusher]

Yeah its still kicking....sucks

I was looking at it just now was thinking I can throw some cinder blocks on the ground and put the floor jack on it, loosen the bolts and jack the front of the bed up. The only problem is that my side exhaust is sticking through the body kit....fvck'n didn't think about the effects having it come out the side until now....

Seriously contemplating cutting a hole in the bed....

[csl2006]

If they're anything like the first gens it's not hard to drop the tank from the bottom.

[Bone Crusher]

I got my Walbro from eBay for less than $100 shipped Chris. I think it was like $95.
Here's the eBay seller I bought mine from>>>>http://stores.ebay.com/MK3TUNER

I haven't messed with mine yet, But I'm pretty sure all you really need to do the swap in in the kit. Only thing I would change/do different if the hose. The hose that comes with it is J30R9 witch is supposed to be fine. J30R10 is definitely fine. Napa is supposed to carry it.

Or....you can used the accordion type fuel line which is what's on there from the factory. I'ts what I'm doing. You can get it from here, http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/kits.html

The 8" flex line in the one used for us. You can also order J30R10 hose from them if that the way you wanna go.

I appreciate the info, but I am stuck b/w a rock and a hard spot with time. It would take too long to get this stuff in and I need to get it into reliable condition before Monday

[csl2006]

whats holding the gas tank up? 2 straps?

[Bone Crusher]

yeah and the heat shield is in the way.....

I'll have to get a hand crank to pump out about 10 gallons of gas too..

[csl2006]

hmm. I have free time at work tommorow. My tanks about empty I may experiment with pulling mine or looking it over real good. Hows the heat shield held up?

[Bone Crusher]

Im guessing a couple of bolts

[csl2006]

I've never took one down from a 2nd gen yet. My first gen was easy. Me and my dad had the tank down and fuel pump changed in about an 1hr or less

[XTREME80]

PM sent Chris. :D

[pewter03zq8]

should be able to loosen bed bolts,slide towards pass side to clear exhaust, and lift driver side with a 2x4 to hold it up. That worked for me.

[IceDraken]

Agreed with pewter. On flip side, installing an access door onto the bed would be great for later fuel leaks and hose replacements...

[Bone Crusher]

Im pulling the bed after reading up on cutting the bed. I was going to drop the tank but after reading up on that, it seems involved for not having a lift or ramps. I have some people coming over to help me with the bed.

Scott hooked me up on saving some time and sent me his walbro pump and nozzle hose, so I will be doing the in-tank conversion this weekend. I'll take pics even though there is a good link from UR50SLO that I will be going off of.

[XTREME80]

Sweet.....




What would you do without us. LOL

[Bone Crusher]

Not quite sure but I am glad there are some good people here that pull through in times of need.

[XTREME80]

:D

[Jongo88]

Cool.. A new how to.....

[12sws27]

That guy that overnighted that pump to you probably has ulterior motive...you better watch him....

[XTREME80]

LOL Watch-ya thinking of Scott?

[Bone Crusher]

If I drop the soap, I'm leaving it be......

[XTREME80]

Hahahaha.

[spideyjected]

Scotty the soap warrior... rut roh rorge.

[firefighter]

You effing guys..... lol

[Bone Crusher]

UR50SLO (Scott) thanks for the good info: http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50198

I snapped a couple more pics of what I did and will post up a little later. The flex hose didn't allow the bottom part of the housing on the springs to go all the way down and was a b!tch to get on the feed line nipple at the top. I used one of the hose clamps that came with walbro pump on the top nipple and left the other side going to the pump free since it was also very tight and hard to get on. To pull the bed and all the mods to the pump took 3 hours. The bed is back on but still need to tighten her down.

The truck starts right up and runs very smooth...I will be driving it later tonight or tomorrow and will let you know how she does on the street.

[12sws27]

Cool! Sorry I didn't get your call. I left my phone in my truck and didn't realize it till just now.

[12sws27]

Your pics failed. Fix them please! :)

[Bone Crusher]

Crap.....give me a couple minutes to upload them to PB

[Bone Crusher]

Can you see them now?

[12sws27]

Can you see them now?

Yup!

[XTREME80]

Sweet!

[firefighter]

Damn good to see this saga is over. lol

[Bone Crusher]

Amen!!!!