wynjammer intake q

[pjayz]

how hard will it be to get my aem brute force intake to work with a wynjammer s/c if i do decide to get, or is it even possible :(

[JROD©™®]

any reason why...

just copy cat the wynjammer's...do you know what a dremel is?

sorry man...i'm no help... :D

[94s10]

i dont know why you would want to reuse your AEM intake, the wynjammer comes with its own intake.

i would sell it if i were you and make back some of the money you spent on the s/c

[JROD©™®]

maybe he wants to keep that metal tube that the AEMs come with...that would be kinda cool. i'm sure its possible pjayz...just take some time and fabrication. look at the wynjammers intake assembly (http://www.wynjammer.com/ALM1115/GM_4/IMAG014A.JPG) then look at your AEM intake...compare and contrast...then make A look like B...

lots of peeps here have wyn's...maybe someone used their own intake...??

[LoRyder]

I've got an AEM intake, but I'm gonna sell it when I get my S/C 'cause I need money! lol! That'd be cool if you could make the two work. I dunno how benifical it would be, don't you get more heat soak with a metal intake as opposed to plastic?

[bvr775]

mythbuster time:

you can't heat soak an intake tube. Plastic, metal, glass it dosn't matter. air moves through the tube to fast for it to change the temp of the air.

[biglouie_underpressure]

mythbuster time:

you can't heat soak an intake tube. Plastic, metal, glass it dosn't matter. air moves through the tube to fast for it to change the temp of the air.
thats like saying you can't heat soak a intercooler.

[03 Rado]

I was pretty much thinking along the same lines. Under that idealism and IC wouldnt work!

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

No point in getting any intake if you're going to eventually get a Wynjammer because the Wynjammer comes with an intake already. But, to answer your question: I've looked at it several different ways and don't see any plausible way to get any intake to work with the Jammer due to how it is installed and what route the bends take.

[importmaster1300]

Maybe Camaro a intake?
That is if you only wanted some chrome added to the W/J..... other than that I would see no point to change it over.

[bvr775]

an inter cooler and an intake tube or 2 different things.
an intake tube moves a volume of air though a large hole.
an inter cooler moves the air though several holes.

want proof. we would all agree that water and air have different properties so take this as literally
take 3" pipe about 4" long set it on a burner and pump water trough it and measure the temp at the inlet and outlet.
now take 6 1/2 pipes of the same length put them on the burner with a tank on both ends like radiator so you pump equal amounts through all the pipes at the same volume and measure the temp at the inlet and outlet.

what do you think the results will be?

[03 Rado]

Yes water and air have different thermal properties so you cant use water as a basis for this test. Water and air absortion and disapaction properties are too far apart to use as a test.
Better one yet, try this. The average length of a household furnace heat exchanger is around 15 inches, larger tubed, fairly close in length to the average intake system. Air entering at ambient within tenths of a second is heated to how much over ambient?

[Matt]

Surface area is the key to both of your guy's ideas. Bvr is right though, air going through that intake tube with the small amount of surface area that it has, with the high velocity the air has will not heat up a drastic amount to be negligible for most applications.

The difference between that intake tube and a heat exchanger/intercooler is a large difference of surface area. The heat exchanger has lots, intake tube has very little. This is the same prinicple your radiator works on and the same reason air cooled motors use fins built into the heads/cylinders.

With a boosted motor, however this heat soak will be even more negligible as the temp of the air in the tube is much closer to the temp of the ambient air in the motor compartment. When to really watch out for this is if you have drastic differences, like if you pulling in 40 degs outside air and the engine has been running for a while and the ambient is nearing 200 degs.

[biglouie_underpressure]

LMFAO cool!! go a head and make all your pressure pipe and intake metal.I wonder why Al used plastic? when any of you ppl posted against me get an s/c, has tuned one, or ran the shyt out of it on the dyno let me know.

[03 Rado]

Surface area is the key to both of your guy's ideas. Bvr is right though, air going through that intake tube with the small amount of surface area that it has, with the high velocity the air has will not heat up a drastic amount to be negligible for most applications.

The difference between that intake tube and a heat exchanger/intercooler is a large difference of surface area. The heat exchanger has lots, intake tube has very little. This is the same prinicple your radiator works on and the same reason air cooled motors use fins built into the heads/cylinders.

With a boosted motor, however this heat soak will be even more negligible as the temp of the air in the tube is much closer to the temp of the ambient air in the motor compartment. When to really watch out for this is if you have drastic differences, like if you pulling in 40 degs outside air and the engine has been running for a while and the ambient is nearing 200 degs.

If your going to debate against me, please dont support me in doing it!
Air heats within miliseconds and the longer the time its in contact with a heated surface the more the temp will rise. The greater the difference which you stated (When to really watch out for this is if you have drastic differences, like if you pulling in 40 degs outside air and the engine has been running for a while and the ambient is nearing 200 degs) is correct. Your trying to pull in the coolest air possible from around a headlight, ram air hood, cowl hood, whatever, then you draw it into a higher heated metal surface area which leads to conduction heat transfer.
Conduction is the transfer of heat energy through a solid material. Metals such as copper and aluminum are good conductors of heat energy. Glass, ceramics and plastics are relatively poor conductors of heat energy and are frequently used as thermal insulators.
From that point it begins to heat and expand then leads to a primary compression area (SC) under a begining of expansion and heat absortion, this furthers the expansion of the air and accelerates the heat rise. Now you'll dump it into another metal heated pipe to lead it to the intake which is helping it retain the heat generated over a plastic tube.
Thank you.

If I was drawing air in from the firewall area everything you stated would have be true as far as it being negligable, but this isnt the case nor would I want to be drawing in that kind of air. Its less dense, would make less overall power and I want the densest coolest air possible and keep it that way. You can say its negligable, but in fact it is power, thats being lost, may only be a few horsepower in some circumstance of high ambient temperatures of daytime, but at nite while its cooling and I'm running on the track its much more!

I run a STS Turbo system, the filter is located in my bed versus underneath where it picks up heated air from pavement surfaces. Runs though a what you'd call a negligable surfaced tube, but I see over a 60 degree temp drop just like those peoples running turbos mounted on the ends of their manifolds and then through a IC, yet I make more power at the same PSI levels and outrun them! I better go back to the drawing boards cause somethings wrong!

[biglouie_underpressure]

Conduction is the transfer of heat energy through a solid material. Metals such as copper and aluminum are good conductors of heat energy. Glass, ceramics and plastics are relatively poor conductors of heat energy and are frequently used as thermal insulators.
From that point it begins to heat and expand then leads to a primary compression area (SC) under a begining of expansion and heat absortion, this furthers the expansion of the air and accelerates the heat rise. Now you'll dump it into another metal heated pipe to lead it to the intake which is helping it retain the heat generated over a plastic tube.
Thank you.


and i say ...thank you

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

The long and the short of it:

The AEM intake tube is metal. Metal will transfer heat to the air charge. Heat is bad for power. Plastic won't transfer heat as easily (the thicker the better). Therefore, using an AEM intake (for all that it might look better) would decrease power gain and is thus NOT a good idea.

Side note: black surfaces REPEL heat, rather than retain it -- which is why (aside from cost considerations) most intakes are made from black plastic: cooler air charge and less heat soak from underhood heat.

[Finkle]

i always thought it was the other way around supercharged....black absorbs heat and on the other end of the spectrum white repels heats. Try sittin in a black truck on a hot day (or any dark vehicle) and then go in sit in a light coloured truck (maybe white) the black truck will be way hotter on the inside than the light coloured one.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

i always thought it was the other way around supercharged....black absorbs heat and on the other end of the spectrum white repels heats. Try sittin in a black truck on a hot day (or any dark vehicle) and then go in sit in a light coloured truck (maybe white) the black truck will be way hotter on the inside than the light coloured one.
Technically you are correct -- my terminology is in error, but the principle is the same. A black intake tube keeps heat away from the air charge, thus keeping it cooler, where a lighter intake tube will project heat into the air charge, and thus increase the temp of that charge. I was in error by not adding the word "intake" to my statement. . .

Either way, if you data-log your intake temp with both types of intakes, you will find that a thick, black plastic intake will convey a cooler air charge than a metal one -- which is why most of the better intakes on the market are made of black plastic (aside from cost considerations).

[Matt]

If your going to debate against me, please dont support me in doing it!
But thats how you have a debate if someone has a good point/idea!



Conduction[font=&quot] is the transfer of heat energy through a solid material. Metals such as copper and aluminum are good conductors of heat energy. Glass, ceramics and plastics are relatively poor conductors of heat energy and are frequently used as thermal insulators.
Im aware what conduction is and the material's crystalline structures that promote faster transfer. What I didnt understand was why you were trying to compare a heat exhachanger (intercooler) to a circle. As we all know, a circle has the least amount of suface area for an enclosed chamber that has length. With the least amount of suface area things like fluid friction losses, minor losses, AND heat transfer by conduction go down dramatically (reasons to use a circular tube in fluid transfer), especially minor losses (nealy 4-10 for a heat exchanger, literally 0 for a tube). Also when you have a pressuried turbulent flow of air in a circular tube the flow velocity field is interesting. It is very slow near the walls of the tube because of shear forces from the frictional coeffiecnt (e/d method) of the material, but only a literal millimeter away into the tube, the flow is nearly at full velocity (Using Reynod's number, e/d, and frict. fact in Moody). While this does heat up a small amount of air, that area is << than that area of air that is passing at nearly uniformly full velocity unaffected by the heat transfer (the air is a good insulater, as is the air in your double paned windows).
Transfer, however, will play a bigger role in long distance runs of several (5+) feet or more like your bed mounted turbo kit, but for the Wynjammer (i think that what this thread was about anyway) the intake tube is only several inches (http://www.wynjammer.com/ALM1115/GM_S10_4.html) which will barely see the results.

Now Im not arguing with you on the theory of transfer, it does and will happen... even to your plastic tube, Im simply saying for most applications subsitituing a short run of metal will not have the dramatic reprocussions of switiching to metal for your system.



Now you'll dump it into another metal heated pipe to lead it to the intake which is helping it retain the heat generated over a plastic tube.
Wait.... the metal is retaining heat more than plastic?

[03 Rado]

Wait.... the metal is retaining heat more than plastic?

Yeah, funny how that worked, huh? The metal after the SC would be also heated from the outside source of sitting over the engine which then also would aid in more heat being held or generated to the discharged air. Plastic wouldnt conduct the heat as high and could at least allow a partial cooling in the minute time frame!

GM and other vehicle manufacturers arent using plastic for the fact of weight and cost savings alone. The plastics also offer this area of heat transfer that is lower than previously with casted metals and the likes.

Then someone had mentioned something in cost with aftermarket intakes. Its actually cheaper to use ready made tubing, clamps, connectors, mandrel bend it than it is to set up molds, machines, deburring operations associated with using plastics.