header question

[extreme gmc]

how can igo about making something like this work and be emmissions legal?
http://i20.ebayimg.com/03/i/00/96/ea/95_1.JPG
besides modifying the y pipe would i even be able to use them on my 03?
thanx!!!
charlie

[extreme gmc]

i think i would need to get a used/extra y pipe to fiddle around with to see if i could work on the hook up...

[1993blazerlt]

as long as you don't have an AIR system or other plumbing going to the exauset like EGR they should be fine as long as you keep you o2 sensors close to the same place and keep your cat

[LEADFOOT]

I would say you would have try it and see. As long as you keep the O2 sensors and if they fit, I don't believe it would be a problem. Maybe the steering shaft may be a problem, it is really close to the motor. Would need to see some pics of different angels.

[03 Rado]

how can igo about making something like this work and be emmissions legal?
http://i20.ebayimg.com/03/i/00/96/ea/95_1.JPG
besides modifying the y pipe would i even be able to use them on my 03?
thanx!!!
charlie

"YOU" cannot make them emissions legal.
First off, until 80K is had as far as mileage in all 50 US states it is illegal to attack the exhaust system from the end of the cat to the exhaust manifolds on your own. Under 80K Federal laws are in place to warrenty this aspect of the system. There are CARB approved complete systems out there for some vehicles and its still iffy to the legality of using these under 80K. Technically it isnt legal , but even the anal states will allow this with knowing it has met the CARB boards approval. Your in a catch 22 scenerio that could say you'll get away with it and no one will care or you wont and you'll be forced into returning it back to factory. Then on the other hand you may get away with it today in your state , but by 08 unless your state doesnt care about Federal Aid for maintaining its highway, it will begin to adopt California standards in some form or another. This is just the legal end you must know which most do not know is there and or is coming.

OK part 2. OK long tubes will make better power up top over a short tube arrangement, but with todays touchy OBD2 2nd gen systems which you have you may face a totally different problem. This type header is going to move the location of the 02 drastically from where it was. 02's rely on heat within the exhaust to help them measure 02 content and do there job. Moving it back within the system will make it read cooler than it did before. Some will say the FAMOUS last word called negligible, bullhockey. From the time exhaust leaves the engine it begins a rapid cool down and a mere foot distance will make over a 100 degree drop in temp. Since the 02's today are more accurate than the old ones it will signal the computer that its running richer than previously due to a cooler reading. It will pull some amount of fuel away and you really should be looking at the idea of tuning on a dyno to correct these type factors which will arise to some extent. If you attack it right, your state isnt going to give you crap the idea will work!

[ZR1 S10]

"YOU" cannot make them emissions legal.
First off, until 80K is had as far as mileage in all 50 US states it is illegal to attack the exhaust system from the end of the cat to the exhaust manifolds on your own. Under 80K Federal laws are in place to warrenty this aspect of the system. There are CARB approved complete systems out there for some vehicles and its still iffy to the legality of using these under 80K. Technically it isnt legal , but even the anal states will allow this with knowing it has met the CARB boards approval. Your in a catch 22 scenerio that could say you'll get away with it and no one will care or you wont and you'll be forced into returning it back to factory. Then on the other hand you may get away with it today in your state , but by 08 unless your state doesnt care about Federal Aid for maintaining its highway, it will begin to adopt California standards in some form or another. This is just the legal end you must know which most do not know is there and or is coming.

OK part 2. OK long tubes will make better power up top over a short tube arrangement, but with todays touchy OBD2 2nd gen systems which you have you may face a totally different problem. This type header is going to move the location of the 02 drastically from where it was. 02's rely on heat within the exhaust to help them measure 02 content and do there job. Moving it back within the system will make it read cooler than it did before. Some will say the FAMOUS last word called negligible, bullhockey. From the time exhaust leaves the engine it begins a rapid cool down and a mere foot distance will make over a 100 degree drop in temp. Since the 02's today are more accurate than the old ones it will signal the computer that its running richer than previously due to a cooler reading. It will pull some amount of fuel away and you really should be looking at the idea of tuning on a dyno to correct these type factors which will arise to some extent. If you attack it right, your state isnt going to give you crap the idea will work!

Wow theres got to be millions of illegal people out there then.

Anyways theres no way you could make a stock ypipe even come close to working on those. You would need a custom one.

[03 Rado]

Wow theres got to be millions of illegal people out there then.



No actually thousands at best. See Fbodies, Vettes, Muswangs etc all have legal CARB #ed parts available. Also pre 98, some pre 00 have a seperate ypipe from the cat so its hard pressed really to prove out and questionable exchange of pipes. 98+-00+ have a one piece unit from manifold exit to end of cat and very easy to pick out and exchange of parts. In those states whom do care, without a reciept from a legal issuing shop for exhaust repairs for the reason explaining why this is so, no inspection ticket will be issued. Californians get lucky because the sniffer picks it up as OK, but other states like NY, Texas, NH and others dont have the funding in place for sniffers so they do a Code test on the ECM and visual, whixch is what other states to keep costs down and met Federal emisions will do before 08.

[extreme gmc]

03rado, could you provided a link to where it says that?
thanx!!!
Charlie

[03 Rado]

What do you want exactly?

[Sparky2263]

03 Rado is right. Technically speaking, any alteration of the exhaust w/o CARB approval is illegal. Well, so is speeding and drinking and driving.

That being said, todays O2 sensors are all heated and don't rely on exhaust heat to keep 'em working. Hence, closed loop operation takes about 10 seconds as compared to a minute or more with unheated O2 sensors. Heck, older trucks with the single wire O2 past the Y go into open loop almost every time it idles.

Cooling of the exhaust gases with the headers? Not sure of the effect during steady state driving. Maybe at idle. But nothing beats checking the state of tune on a dyno anyway. Always found horsepower on the dyno.

If I had those headers, they'd be going on the truck.

[extreme gmc]

any ways, i'm not going to use them. anyone know where i can get midlength headers that are already ceramic coated?
Charlie

[extreme gmc]

BTW, i have no AIR or EGR...

[03 Rado]

That being said, todays O2 sensors are all heated and don't rely on exhaust heat to keep 'em working. Hence, closed loop operation takes about 10 seconds as compared to a minute or more with unheated O2 sensors.

They work very simlilar to MAF wires. Heat in the exhaust and how high tells them what the fuel to air ratio is. The hotter the exhaust temp, the leaner it is and visa versa for richness. Moving and 02 will change the effective temperature of what it reads.

I didnt say not to go with them, I didnt say to go with them either, I merely wanted you to know with a 96+ there are legalities invovled that may make you do the same modifaction twice. Once for what you want, and once to maybe make your state happy. We here cannot even finish inspecting a vehicle, it fails ASAP, if it has aftermarket parts with no Carb # on them,sticker that proves it is legal etc. Magnuson Moss act which I've had people refer to when we get into this mess, was for the normal person to go to any parts store of his choice and buy parts to fix said vehicle withou having to use factory parts and not void the warrenty in doing do. It was never meant for AFTERMARKET performance type parts, but today you have a 2nd standard which does this for you, its called CARB approval. Without CARB approval #'s on parts, its TECHINICALLY ILLEGAL and its carries to us a $25,000 fine and loss of license for at least 6 months. How do you do business if you license to pratica was pulled, you dont, so you dont allow these parts either!