Huge project upcoming on my s10, need some input/suggestions/info

[Creatine]

Hello everyone

For those of you who have seen my green monster, things are about to change drastically. I have been dreaming of this build for quite awhile but put a lot of effort into researching and planning my build this upcoming year to tie into a school project I have that I'll get into later.

I am pretty set on most of the build plans I have come up with so far, but I'm always open to suggestions and ideas. Theres a lot I don't know still, but I have good list together. I will be working out of a garage a car club I am with owns, I have lots of old farts who have been hot roding since the 50's that want to help me with my build. Also, this entitles me to all the tools I need.


My Current Truck (pics on profile, but will upload when I'm home)

1988 Chevy s10 Reg. Cab short box.
1992-95 4.3L CPI Vortec + 406e Tranny
2/3 Drop suspension
custom Bucket seats, low profile hardtop, roll pan, mangum flow exaust
Nitro yellow with green paint job (Lime green)
Zq8 s10 rims 235/60/R16 rear + 205/55/R16 front tires


Dream Truck/Planned build (Budget 10-12K)

Swapping body over to a "1987" or pre- registration for emissions

Chassis:

I plan on building my own frame. I work for a steel manu. so most of what I need will be free/@cost I want to narrow the frame in the back a little bit, so rather then doing it to a frame thats over 20 years old, I figured I'd start from scratch since mine is sagging anyways.

I think I'll be using 4-6" C channel and replicating the stock frame as close as possible. I've seen a few built frames on other forums and some work done in person on other narrowed s10 frames, so I have an idea on things. What I don't know is all the specifications to start a base from without measuring my current frame.
If someone has a good info sheet on that , it would be great.

Power Train

LS1 long block
t56 Tranny
Custom made drive shaft
12bolt or 9" rear with detroit true tac and 3:73 gears

True dual stainless steel exhaust 2.5" with FM40's *subject to change

Suspension

Front:
Tubular upper + lower control arms
Coil overs
New drop spindles (already obtained)

Rear:
Custom Made traction bars (already made)
Adding rear sway bar
Leaf stiffiners (there a inverse shape leaf half the lenth that sit on back half, can't think of the proper name atm)


Steering

Zq8 steering box?
Jeep steering shaft?

Haven't spent to much time here yet researching. Saw a jeep steering shaft upgrade on LS1tech that seemed pretty popular. And saw in another thread the zq8 steering box handles better. Open to all input here


Wheels and tires

18" all around Z06 5 star (10 spoke) chrome rims
295-315s' street tires on the back, 225s up front

MISC.

tubing box in a little
Fuel cell to be mounted in box
Battery relocated to box
3 stage hitch, licence plate will go through roll pan into hitch.


Exterior:

Custom Black Cherry Paint (possibly adding some flake)
2" cowl hood if needed, but would prefer to keep it more original
Chrome front end
Chrome Door handles
Chrome Rims

Interior

School Project (Computer engineering)

Hands free controls/Voice Activation

I will be creating a control system for power windows/hvac/radio/phone/secuirty features and what ever else I had to the list. It will be capable of voice activation so it will only recongize my voice. I will have buttons located on the steering wheel, door panels, center console and roof console, that will mute sound for clairty and record the commands I will give it. This is a very summarized description.

This part of the project is 80% designed, all I am waiting on in the engine/setup I am going with to know what wiring harness I have to tie into which I will be creating from scratch.

I will be going with all new gaugues and a custom fiberglass/checkered diamon plate dash. My buckets will be restitched in two tone leather and I'll be adding 4 point racing harnesses in.
I'll have some photoshop sketches up soon once I convert my drawings.



I am really set on spending the money to have an LSX build in my truck. I was thinking a medium cam with it, I'd like a nice v8 idle to it. I am not looking for a turbo/supercharger setup at this time, I want something I can put the key in and go for the long run without constantly rebuilding. So I'm more about spending money into building the motor. I was thinking heads/cam/intank/headers/msd igintion as far as upgrades. Not initially planning to mess around with the injectors and fuel to much, but open to it.

I've done a lot of reading on rear ends in the last little while. Everything I come across seems to be biased towards the 9". I am only looking to make 400-500HP so I know the 12bolt is capable of handling that if its built right. I would prefer not to having anything "Ford" in my truck, but if the right deal comes along I wouldn't be opposed to the 9", ill give credit where its due. Looking for HWY gears, not concerned with doing wheel stands.

The truck should be stripped naked and project starting come the spring (may/june) time. I have till March of 2013 to ensure the project is completed. But I plan to buy everything ahead of time, and I'm taking 2 months off during the summer to spend every day in the garage working on it.

What do you think?

[rentedmule]

The ZQ8 steering box is a must and the jeep shaft or swapping the rag joint for u-joint is a great upgrade. Go with a wider tire on the front or all of your suspension upgrades will be wasted. If you want good street/highway manners a 245 would be okay and if you want all out handling go with a 275. Sounds like a fun build!

[Creatine]

Thanks for the input, I would more then likely go towards the street/hwy setup witha 245.

EDIT:

forgot to add paint changes! updated

[Hammer Head]

Depending on your skill level, take another month off.. if you can. The engine swap alone will be about a week/2 weeks. The chassis possibly 2-3weeks. That's just those two.. & if you've got some skills. If you've never done aything like this before.. add months & months & months..
I had 275s up front & 315s in the back w/ my ZQ8 pkg truck, Bumble Bee. Handled nicely. Since took the wheels off. The rims rubbed the UCAs in the front.. maybe if they were tubular they wouldn't have rubbed.
Good luck w/ the build.

[Creatine]

Thanks hammer. I got 2 months planned off with about 5 months part time to finish up. I'm new to a lot of this but I'm pretty good with tools (exp with welding, cutting, measuring lol not in that order), and I'm surrounded by about 4-5 ppl with experience to guide me and help me that have been doing it since before most people on this forum were born. So I go lucky there. I figured I'd start getting all my lists complete with parts/prices etc a couple months before I start to keep my deadlines in tac. I wan't tp start buying everything over the next couple months and have almost the entire powertrain sitting in the shop before I even start.

[rentedmule]

The rims rubbed the UCAs in the front.. maybe if they were tubular they wouldn't have rubbed.

My 'vette wheels rub my tubular UCAs - that's the limiting factor on steering radius (at least on the driver's side).

[Hammer Head]

I found, since working on Hoss, a 2" spacer up front gives enough room to prevent rubbing.. but I know it's not an option on an S truck w/out fender flares.

[rentedmule]

Continued thread hijack, sorry OP! I run a 2.5" spacer and it still rubs - going to try a little wider this summer

[Creatine]

Hah that's ok its all good info. I personally don't like the look of tires sticking out on these trucks (first gen anyways) which was the reason for narrowing the frame. So I didn't plan on ussing spacers upfront.

Is it the width of the tire/rim that's causing the rub or is it the size of the rim (18")? I would assume the width but I also read something about clearance issues with the tie rod when using drop spindles? I can't remember exactly I'll have to spend some time later today looking into that.


I currently have 16's with a 205/55 tire and the only rubbing I get is on a hard turn when it rubs the inside of the wheel well. This was much worse when the truck was on a 5/6 drop.

[rentedmule]

It's a combination of diameter and width that causes the troubles. My fronts are 17x9.5 and if I recall correctly the clearance issues are less of a concern with an 18" of equal width because the edge of the wheel will be further away from the control arm. Drop spindles will interfere with a 17" wheel that wide but again, I think it's a non-issue with 18" wheels because of the larger diameter.

[Creatine]

Updates:

Motor Build:

LS1 Long Block
LS6 Intake
LS6 Throtle body


Possible Cams:



Need some help picking a cam/heads for build. Was redirected to looking at these. What do you think?

Thunder Racing LS3 224/236 .609/.607 117 LSA

Texas Speed 228R 228/228 .588"/.588" (LSA options vary from 111-115)

EPS 226/230 .598/.600 112+4

[Creatine]

Possible change of plans here.

Based on some research after a suggestion from ls1tch, I may go the LQ4 route. For the price of paying for a "vette" engine, I can have a well built LQ4 with L92 heads/LS3 Intake along with a good cam could run me well into the mid 400s+. Not to mention the local avaliability with the LQ4 is much higher, giving me the chance to find one with very low kms.

I need to spend some more time over the next couple days doing research, but I may scrap the LS1 plan, but keep the T56 without a question.

Any experience/thoughts on this? I'd say 75% of posts favour the LQ4 build for costs purposes, but you always get the "know it alls" that seem to bring up points to throw you off.

[Hammer Head]

LQ4/LQ9 is a 6.0 block made of iron. It weighs 80lbs more than the LS1/LS6.. no big deal. LS1/LS6 is a 5.7. You can save money & use LS6 heads. Or use the LQ9 heads & Long block (it has a higher compression ratio than the LQ4). LQ4s are good engines if you want to run a turbo/supercharger. A truck manifold flows about the same as the LS6 intake manifold but both the LS6 & LQ4/LQ9 manifolds flow better than the LS1 intake manifold.

..is this a good answer to your question? I didn't know exactly what you wanted to know.

[Creatine]

Not to correct you or anything, because I am by any means no expert but according to a few stickies, the difference is only 50lbs~. but I'm not to concerned with that since it won't make to much of a difference in my application like you said.

The problem with a truck manifold from what others said is that it sits higher, and would cause clearance issues. By using L92 heads and LS3 intake I would eliminate that problem and also increase the compression ratio to use pump gas no problem...this was posted on ls1tech. That would also greatly increase my hp/tq gains with the right cam setup. I'm not interested in boost at this time, only due to funds, but certainly something I would give a shot maybe down the road. So that leaves plenty of room there. L92 heads are listed for 399$ new each, which I'm sure is not to far off from getting a pair of used LS6s maybe? I'm sure I could come across a set of used L92s for around 500$ I think. But to have brand new ones for a couple hundred more I don't mind dishing out some $$ there.

I wasn't looking for anything specific other then what anyone might suggest or could give an opinion about if they had a similar setup. What I do need to gather is all the parts I'll need to build this setup. Luckily the idea of going this route will make that easier, especially for us Canadians.

I came across a link that lists almost every gm part number for a complete rebuild. Although that bookmark is on my laptop so I will edit with it. It has a whole guide based on the LQ4 with L92 head swap, and showed some HP/TQ charts with 2 different cams used. The only difference was they went with a carb setup.

EDIT: Heres the link

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/completebuilds_testing/sucp_0806_budget_ls_engine_buildup/viewall.html

[Hammer Head]

Yep, truck manifold DOES sit higher.. does it cause interference? Don't remember it causing problems.. but I know the truck accys required minor grinding of the hood supports. I know if you looked you could find good heads. The truck heads are the same as the LS6 but they have bigger combustion chambers. That why most guys have used the LS6 heads on the LQ4 short blocks so it builds compression & makes it around the LQ9.

[Creatine]

Interesting, maybe I'll go that route with LS6 heads/intake.

Any fellow canadians (Jay) in Ontario or guys located in the states around Ontario know some good wrecking yards to find a cheap complete motor? I only have a handful around me and most don't even know what the 6.0L Vortec is..... I only found one thats half complete for 1500.

I also have family in the states located all down the east so I don't mind having something shipped to them and driving to get it.

[Creatine]

I just had a break through, I found a 6.0L 04 LQ4 complete with harness and possibly the computer as well for 350$ with just over 100K on it. I remembered my friend whos a mechanic worked at this shop and they had a 6.0L sitting on the floor there for awhile and I always joked about putting that in my truck....who knew ahaha

[Creatine]

Should I switch all the accesories and pullies over to the f-body style to create some more room between the fans? This engine has a clutch fan on the front, I'm assuming I can just take that off and run e-fans otherwise right? BTW, everything off this motor is up for sale if your interested, just throw me a price I'm not really looking to make to much of a buck off of it, especially to any s10planet members (which have priority over anyone else :p )
What's the difference between a LSA 111/112/113. What one would I want in my application?

Here is my updated build plans:

LQ4 6.0L Iron Block
L92 Heads + Will try and find local machine shop to port
LS3 Intake
Stock head gasget
Texas Speed Performance 229/236 .624 .615 111 LSA cam

Rearend gears 4:10 or 4:56s

Also, what do you think of an e-supercharger? For the price seems like a pretty decent upgrade. I know its no where having a real one or turbo, but for how easy I can install it, worth it?

http://www.superchargertuning.com/Chevrolet/Silverado/ (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=14&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fls1tech.com%2Fforums%2Fgeneral-lsx-automobile-discussion%2F1507905-huge-s10-project-building-ls1-motor-need-some-info-help-suggestions.html&v=1&libid=1327681787100&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.superchargertuning.com%2FChev rolet%2FSilverado%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fls1tech.com%2Fforums%2Fgeneral-lsx-automobile-discussion-118%2F&title=Huge s10 project%2C building LS1 motor%2C need some info%2Fhelp%2Fsuggestions - LS1TECH&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.superchargertuning.com%2FChev rolet%2FSilverado%2F&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13276817971201)


EDIT: Ignore the supercharger, apperently someone posted that on another forum in my thread as a joke. I didn't know any better lol

[Hammer Head]

3.55's or 3.73's in back would be better. You'll end up hating the 4.10's or anything numerically higher. Sure, it'll be great off the line but a dog on top end & ANY highway driving.
Yeah, you can pull off the fan & use elec. fans. F body brackets/accys are a little goofy. I think I remember them olny giving 3/4" more clearance.

[Creatine]

For some reason someone said not to go with 3:73 or anything lower. I thought 3:73s would be good.


Assuming everything is fine that I'm pulling out, I was thinking of listeing it for the following prices, do these seem fair?

Heads (pair) 150-200$
Pistons and rods 100$
Cam 100$
Intake(with TB) 50-100$
Sensors (all together) 50-100$
Waterpump 40-50$
Pan (on good condition) 25$

I know I could save money by reusing the sensors and maybe some other parts, but I feel much better rebuilding the motor and starting with everything fresh. Think I'm only going to use block and crankshaft.

Also, an important question I missed. Should I switch over to flat head pistons for CR? (Tech. making this a LQ9)

[neo71665]

3.73s are a good common ground gear for just about anything street/strip. Right off the top of me head I don't know the ratio your trans has but unless its just something off the wall I would suggest 3.73s.

I'm running them in my nova and my 4x4. My old fullsize gmc and v8 dime had 4.11s and they would wind out way too fast for street trucks.

[Hammer Head]

LS2 (6.0) pistons as the same bore as stock.

[Creatine]

Thought I'd give a status update.

I found a great guy on LS1 tech who's helping me out with parts and my project.

Just bought LS3 heads stage 1 porting, stainless valves and comp dual springs rated for .650 lift along with an LS3 intake complete both with 5 miles on them. $1400

Spec twin disc clutch + billet flywheel used with 10% wear at most, 500$ :D it goes for 1800 brand new.

Also received my LS3 fuel rail covers, brand new starter, and a spare LS1 flywheel that I no longer need for 175$

Looking to get a T56 tranny and rear end a.s.a.p when I come across a good deal. Once my block comes back from the machine shop he's going to hook me up with forged rods and pistons, LS9 gaskets, and the rocker arms/push rods I need. As well as the remaining gasket kit, coil packs/wires/plugs and DBC TB.

I ran the number on my ECU and found out its the one that can run DBC so that saves me some hassle. I know you guys love pics so I'll get some soon of my parts.

EDIT:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/Kevinpalmieri/IMG00076-20120227-1734.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/Kevinpalmieri/s10%20project/photo5.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/Kevinpalmieri/s10%20project/photo.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/Kevinpalmieri/s10%20project/photo1.jpg

[BigTruckDrivah]

Did you pick a cam yet? With the port work you might want to get with a good cam co like Howard's or lunat, for something more fitting than a off shelf cam. Atleast try some others before you buy a junk comp cam, I don't know what the deal is but I've seen a few of their flat tappet grinds go flat on break in, personal exp. And a buddy of mine bent one of their solid roller cams after 4-5 passes.

Those 3 you listed are pretty common, that tx speed won't be nitrous friendly FYI. Don't know what your plans are. I'd like to see either of those others on a tighter lobe sep, like 112-114. Maybe tighter if you do a manual trans and plan on some track time.

Nice build, looks like you are planning well. Ive been pondering one of these with a carb, since my 434 is about finished.

[1gary]

Most engine building shops have moved away from using flat tappet cams because of the lack of zink in out current oils.Flat spotting cams is the result of poor break-in procedures and certainly not the cam manufactures fault.Using a hyro roller cam eliminates that problem with the added bonus of much better cam profiles.Faster ramp speeds and bigger good idle lifts are some of the benefits.

What exactly is a "stage" one porting mean??.How many cc's does the port run now??.Those numbers along with SCR's are very important to choosing a matched cam.Hand porting although we have been doing that incorrectly since the stone age is are to get without tons of time on a flow bench good percentages of matching port to port.Looks can be and are deceiving.Free hand porting will at best only get port to port 25%.5 position CNC programed porting will produce 5% matched porting port to port and maybe more important match head to head.A lean side head and a rich side head is a real problem to tune.The larger head companies like World,RHS,and Dart not in the comic book fan magazine articles have proven in the trade articles the above to be a reality by testing the lower dollar heads of companies who don't have the budgets for the machinery or the R%D.

So the msg here is,if you don't know the flow numbers,take the heads to someone who is really good on a flow bench to find where your at.Don't accept the sell on shine/size alone.Then armed with those numbers buy a roller cam by taking those numbers,the SCR,intended use,to a tech phone line of a cam company to have them match the cam to what you have.

Guys.Please don't get offended by my post about hand porting.I surely don't want to read about your dad porting a set of double hump heads in his 55 Chevy and what it ran.The train has pulled out on that way and it certainly time to move forward.

[BigTruckDrivah]

Most engine building shops have moved away from using flat tappet cams because of the lack of zink in out current oils.Flat spotting cams is the result of poor break-in procedures and certainly not the cam manufactures fault.Using a hyro roller cam eliminates that problem with the added bonus of much better cam profiles.Faster ramp speeds and bigger good idle lifts are some of the benefit.



Oil is defiantely crap these days. The comment about "poor break in procedures" isnt entirely accurate. I know how to break in a cam, I even broke in the one that went flat per Comps instructions. I used their break in additive, pulled the inner valve springs, ran the engine 2500 rpms for the specific time. Brought the rpm's right up first time the engine fired. I primed it on the stand before it went in too.

The cam went flat on a few lobes as well as eating up the lifters pretty bad too. Again, this was ALL Comp valve train that matched. As far as my buddies cam bending, well thats just proof of junk metal. If you search you will find plenty of evidence of what Im talking about.

What really blew my mind was when I called Comps warranty service, they said "yea it happens on flat tappet grinds more than you think". On top of that, they didnt even investigate the failure. Sent a new cam and lifters out the same day my old ones showed up happily. Luckily I caught it pretty quick before the filter plugged and I pump metal into my bearings. I personally dont want to gamble with a brand new build again. Its hard enought to build it once, damn sure dont want to do it twice!

Flow bench would definately give more info on finding the perfect grind for the app. CNC porting is the sh1t! But have you priced it? Good lord, some times it doubles the price of a set of heads. May as well buy a set of CNC made aftermarkets. Hand porting is what it is, I personally wouldnt try it on anything other than a set of cheap stock heads.

Not trying to be a dik, just sharing PERSONAL experience not what Ive read.

[1gary]

Now ant that something.Cam company telling you knowing the cam wasn't broken in correctly and sill replacing it.I woulld say they are very good campany to work with.

[BigTruckDrivah]

Dont get me wrong, improper cam break in happens. Im just saying the quality oil and metal has declined.

[BigTruckDrivah]

Now ant that something.Cam company telling you knowing the cam wasn't broken in correctly and sill replacing it.I woulld say they are very good campany to work with.

You fail to read. They assumed responsibility, and replaced the cam. It wasnt due to my break in procedure! If you know a better cam break in procedure please enlighten me.

[1gary]

These ref links come from the industry leaders in a forum that by design is the the engine building shops.Not the end user like you.So you will see a number of articles that address cam failures and I suggest you bookmark the site for you to surf on a monthly basis.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=cam+break-in

[BigTruckDrivah]

I dunnno about that man. You really think a mag like that is going to make themselves look bad, or a big manufacture? Honestly you will get a more truthful real world review from the end user like me or any other racer that doesnt like to piss away money on big name parts that fail.


Ive hijacked this thread to the max, Ill back out now. So OP, whats the choice on the cam?

[1gary]

After 17 yrs as a swap meet vendor as a off shoot of our racing operation we got to know many of the industry leaders.They are put in a terrible position with cam returns and customer satisfaction.There is no way for them know how these cams where broke in,If the proper valve train parts where used,the correct rpm was used,proper lash was applied and all the rest.Let at alone is the additive was used.The first thing out of end used mouth it the cam sucks.The bottom line is either the wrong RPM or the additive not proper used or not used for the correct length of time.Cam hardness spec's have been standardizes for yrs with the machines used to grind these cams.Rockwell hardness tests are done on all the lobes for every cam produced.But at the end of the day,for them to eat a return is a better solution than have some customer bad mouthing their brand name.That is also true them knowing out front they did nothing wrong.

Sir-You knowing all the short comings of a flat tappet cam,having one failure,and still going back to one,is illogical.Just doesn't make sense why you didn't make the upgrade after all that.Soon you going to see the availability of flat tappet cams fade.It had proven to be caveman tech...............

[Creatine]

Just a bit of a hi-jack :p but I always enjoy reading stuff I could learn about.

He has an LS7 cam for me along with some others, the guy whos lending me a hand is a former gm enginneer (during the time of the 3rd gen sbc) and runs a high performance shop in the states, they have all their own CNC machines and what not, the guy always talks way over my head each time we chat lol But he is very credible from LS1 tech members

That may not be the final cam (more likely having him grind me a custom cam since he does that) but I think he's just going to ship me the LS7 for my build to get it started for now. TBH I haven't spoke to him in a couple days and we said we'd sit down and go over stuff like that, that I'm still missing.

I'll update when I get more details/parts and direction in the build. I just sorted a bunch of unknowns with the voice activated controls I'm putting in last week so that part of the project is off to a good start. Just trying to find a t56 and rear end right now while I got cash on hand.

[1gary]

To add some cred to what I am saying.I am a former engine tester that worked in the dyno rm at the Chevy Tonn,NY engine plant that has 40 yrs in drag racing where most of it was spent in 9.90 racing successfully to the current BBC RED 7.90 car.We has built and sold lost count a number of engines and sold sbc used parts as a swap meet vendor for 17yrs.I have very strong alliance with industry leaders by meeting them at the swap meets.I strongly suggest you bookmark www.enginebuildermag.com to learn first hand some of the tips and tricks in the section named like that.

The type of porting is a 5 axis cnc machine who's program comes from cmm program machine which can simulate max flow.What has been found is it isn't the cc numbers of a intake runner that matters,but more important the cross section of a port and it's plotting that is night and day.

I am setting here cheering you on from the cheap seats on your LS build.

[BigTruckDrivah]

T56 would be a nice choice. And the obvious "8.8 swap" everyone reccomends. I havnt done one yet, but seems to work. Voice activated? Whoa!


Gary- brother you still are failing to read my posts. I stated I used Comps additive, just like I had on the previous builds. Ran the RPM up to 2500 upon start for 30 minutes just like they want. "The bottom line" is that Comp QC is falling off, follow any racing forum that is serious and you will see people using cam and valvetrain from more reputable companies like Howards. Their stuff is made right here in USA, in house. You call and talk to the same guys every time you call. They know their sh1t too, not just some jackwagon that punches in all your specs into camquest and walaaaaaaa!!! you have a cam selected. All im saying is that I didnt trust Comp to grind me a new small base circle solid roller for the new 434. You never adressed the bent cams, how does that happen sir? That cam ruined a 12k dollar engine. Also, I have a hard time beleiving your 50, 30, now 40 years experience drag racing when all you do is quote some magazine crap. Hell you couldnt even distinguish the difference in 5.7 and 6.00 rods and what crank applies in your 383 build. Id think strokers been around for a while, anyone into racing that long should know. You dont have anything to prove to me, but dont poke me with a stick about capabilities to break in a subpar cam.

Sorry again OP.

I want to see some pics of said build!!!!!!

[1gary]

Aaaaa.My 383 build is a 5.7 Howards crank.I know all about them.They are owned by Competition Products.FYI


BTW.Every day I wake up I regret building a first gen old SBC.The money is spent already.That was a mistake.I should have spent just alittle more and built a SHP or a LS.

[BigTruckDrivah]

I bought the SHP, with a little massaging fit a 4" stroke with ease, rods were clearanced a little too. Wish I would have just bought iron eagle though.

SHP would make a 383 build a peice of cake. Not really that much more grinding for a 6" rod though. I just stuffed a 6" rod 383 in a gen1 block with a standard sized cam. Cam was fairly mild, comps 282 grind(the one that failed). I would think anything with more aggressive profile would need a small base circle. When I clearance rods to cam, I dont put it in time, I roll the rods and cam around to find the tightest areas then grind. Even if the chain lets loose my will NOT hit the rods. The biggest problem Ive found with big inch sbc's is finding a friggin oil pan to accomadate the the stroke.

Anyway, thats enough sbc gen1 litter in this thread. I know enough in that area, lsx territory is what Im trying to learn