Thinking. . .

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

I've got the ZQ8 with 2" spindles and 2" blocks. I'm thinking about removing the 2" blocks and replacing them with 3" blocks (levelling the truck, and evening out the handling/weight distribution).

What does everyone think? Worth the hassle? Or will it not affect the handling at all? My main concern is that is has barely enough room to "squat" on take-off right now, and I wonder if lowering the rear an extra 1" will affect that -- obviously the suspension "squat" won't be much different, but it's the clearance that has me wondering.

Also, what will the extra 1" do to my ride? It's rough/stiff/battering as it is -- I'm just wondering if levelling it out will smooth it out a little. . .

[XxInFaxX]

doubt it will smooth it out, most likely will feel the same as it does now.

[nomaboy]

3 inch blocks put an awful lot of space between the axle and leaf spring. just MO but i wouldn't put 3 inch blocks on it. i recently pulled my 2 inch blocks off in favor of some 3 inch springs. that made it handle a lot better. like i had more control. better results than you would expect from just a 1 inch drop.

[03 Rado]

He is thinking!! Does it hurt??

It'll make axle twist easier to accomplish than with 2 inch blocks!

[lowriderbowtie]

I would do it..its not a hastle at all. You will most likley have to remove your rear bumpstop braket if you havent already. And your ride isnt gonna change at all, it will just be lower.
i say do it.

[xtc_customs]

it will be more succeptable to wheel hop .
you could go with springs .
add in a lager dia sway bar and helper springs to stabilize the ride and it will handle like a dream .

hop over to mys10.com and post up a question for "dimemaster" in the suspension forums . he really really knows how to make these trucks handle .

[lowriderbowtie]

The ideal performance rear suspension would be a 4-link with adjustable coil-overs...that solves the wheel hop, and you can dial in your pinion angle with the turn of the lower bars. alot more expensive, but worth it

[03 Rado]

The ideal performance rear suspension would be a 4-link with adjustable coil-overs...that solves the wheel hop, and you can dial in your pinion angle with the turn of the lower bars. alot more expensive, but worth it

Even 4 link with bags!!! Beats having the blocks that cause the axle twist that creates wheel hop!!!! Also no more bump steer the blocks create!

[<-~Jo~->]

smells like if something was burning...

[xtreme lowpro]

when i put my blocks on my wheel hop problem completely went away. i havent had anymore problem out of it since but thats with 2 inch blocks

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

He is thinking!! Does it hurt??

It'll make axle twist easier to accomplish than with 2 inch blocks!
Hadn't thought of that. . . Hmm. . . If I got rid of the blocks, I'd need 4" drop springs then (ZQ8 + 2" blocks = 4"). And to get the equivalent of a ZQ8 and 3" blocks, I'd need 5" drop springs.

Yes, now my brain IS starting to hurt. . . But, It wouldn't be as much of a pain because the springs would already have polyurethane bushings, so I wouldn't need to deal with those again. . . And since I've had the springs off lately, it would be a lot easier to do the swap.

OK -- thanks folks, I'm avoiding 3" blocks. . . Now I just need to decide whether or not to go with the extra drop with springs or not. It WOULD reduce the chances of axle wrap, so it's worth contemplating.

[ZR1-S10]

Yes go ahead and add a set of 3" leafs to go with the 2" blocks that you already have. That will get the 5" drop you want and won't add axle-hop.

[03 Rado]

Just so everyone knows if considering such a ZQ8 suspension is only 1 1/2 inches of drop over a normal truck-blazer etc.

[lowriderbowtie]

Just so everyone knows if considering such a ZQ8 suspension is only 1 1/2 inches of drop over a normal truck-blazer etc.


thats right...and on Xtreme truck, its 2" just cause they use smaller diamerter tires

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

The ZQ8 and the Xtreme use the EXACT same suspension and the exact same tire size. Both sit about 1.5" to 2" lower than a "normal" S-10.

I don't want to go 5" lower than what I've got -- I have a ZQ8 (hence the screen name. . .) and have 2" blocks. I thought about levelling it out by going 1 more inch -- which would amount to 5" lower than a normal suspension -- but 3" lower than a ZQ8 suspension. . .

I'm going to see how it does with the suspension upgrades I've done over the winter. I may go with just leaf springs (to eliminate the blocks), depending on how it does at the Auto-X tomorrow. So far, I've encountered NO axle-wrap that I am aware of -- but that doesn't mean I'm not having any -- just none that I can notice. We'll see.

[lowriderbowtie]

if you go with 3" leafsprings alone....your truck will raise up .5" from where it is now! the zq8 gets its drop from leafs remember.
your gonna have to run a block in there if you want it lower in the rear.

Zq8+2" block is equal to a 3.5" drop on a regular s10.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Right. That's basically what I was already thinking.

Of course, I like the positive rake as far as appearance -- it's the handling and axle-wrap aspects I need to take into consideration.

The next main question is: does any particular company make 5" drop leafs? By doing the 5" leafs and nothing else, it would level it out.

[nomaboy]

i have looked and cannot find 5 inch springs. i did buy some "3" inch springs off of ebay brand new and they lowered the back about 4 inches. that is the biggest drop spring i have found.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

i have looked and cannot find 5 inch springs. i did buy some "3" inch springs off of ebay brand new and they lowered the back about 4 inches. that is the biggest drop spring i have found.
Hmm. . . 4" might do it. . .

Now I've got to mull it over. . .

[mrselfdestruct]

wow, this is getting beat up pretty badly.

if you want to go one inch lower, 3" springs and 2" block, for a total of 5" STOCK drop or 3" total ZQ8 drop. (which you are sitting at 2" ZQ8 drop right now, or 3.5 STOCK drop)

mine rides on a 5" drop. belltech 2" blocks and 3" springs. perfect.

oh yeah. bumpstops gotta go! otherwise it'll ride and sound like a dump truck.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

wow, this is getting beat up pretty badly.

if you want to go one inch lower, 3" springs and 2" block, for a total of 5" STOCK drop or 3" total ZQ8 drop. (which you are sitting at 2" ZQ8 drop right now, or 3.5 STOCK drop)

mine rides on a 5" drop. belltech 2" blocks and 3" springs. perfect.

oh yeah. bumpstops gotta go! otherwise it'll ride and sound like a dump truck.
It already rides like a dump truck.

The point is to level it out without blocks.

[03 Rado]

i have looked and cannot find 5 inch springs. i did buy some "3" inch springs off of ebay brand new and they lowered the back about 4 inches. that is the biggest drop spring i have found.

Ready made, no!!
Did anyone look locally, NO!!

Most all decent cities have spring shops that more cater to Semi-Dump trucks, but do offer services for any spring to be made. They'll make whatever drop you would like by making a new main springs then picking the rest for load carrying weight etc, thats where people whom race go for theirs.

The problem with ready mades is they use the springs designed to maintain a lower load rating which makes the springs soft. Soft springs will axle wrap easier than a hard spring will.

I can go to thruway spring an have a heavier main made with a flat no arch, lifted arch or even a negative reverse arch will will drop you big time. Then add multi leafs, and not just one and a support to carry the same load rate without dropping much more etc etc etc etc for around $71-$125 per spring. But personally if I wanted to go more than a flat main would drop me, I would no longer be looking at leafs anymore!!!!

[03 Rado]

I'll just make this real simple and crude.

Lowering springs are ok for a normal 3 inch drop and normal power.

Blocks over 1 inch are for morons who are so cheap they shouldnt drive.

If I had 200 + ponies to my rearend I would be ****ing around with soft dead ass lowering springs fighting every attempt of me getting traction. Screw the blocks which add leverage to and allready moronic setup and move on to a 3-4 link option and do it right. Most traction available and tuneable in most cases for any AUTOCROSS and DRAG RACING application you can cross!!

[nomaboy]

^^^^very opinonated.

[03 Rado]

^^^^very opinonated.

Its not opinion, its all fact. Lowering springs are made to a softer rate which will wrap faster and more under a load.
Blocks add a leverage point to make the spring wrap happen at lower loading than without making things worse.
Lowering springs are made for those whom want a clean drop but not alot of money, but retain some ride quality.
Blocks are made for cheap people whom dont care about ride quality etc. They dont even make he right sized ubolts which is another unsafe method of fastening which can cause dog tracking and other issues.

Ive seen vehicles run alum blocks and the center casted pin breaks off and spits the blocks out under load.
Dog tracking all the time using them even with a 4 wheel alignment since the body is shifted from the axle centers due to the wrong sized bolts. Broken blocks by the hoards.

Supercharged has what should be over 225 RWHP and wants to race either 1/4 mile and or autocross. The blocks are the most unsafe thing he could be running for one. Secondly it'll cause more axle wrapping than anything else which is gonna slow down any decent acceleration he can muster. Springs could be used for the full drop and can be found somewhat locally to what he needs but still isnt the full need he should want. Being that much power and what he has allready tied up into the truck he should be considering other options to make this work the best it can without goig CHEAP or having a change in direction for its full purpose!

[firefighter]

Here is a comment and a question I personally have a Blazer X well I went and put some Belltech springs (3" drop) and a 1" spring and the ride flat out SUX the spring has no arch therefore no travel compounded by 40 series on 18" rims and well it does not equal a good ride for a daily driver and well if it handled really good I could live with it but to me it handles like CRAP. Now I am contemplating a triangulated 4 link with coil overs but it was brought to my attention that you want to mount the coils at angles for best handeling. Any comments or knowlege on this subject?

[03 Rado]

Here is a comment and a question I personally have a Blazer X well I went and put some Belltech springs (3" drop) and a 1" spring and the ride flat out SUX the spring has no arch therefore no travel compounded by 40 series on 18" rims and well it does not equal a good ride for a daily driver and well if it handled really good I could live with it but to me it handles like CRAP. Now I am contemplating a triangulated 4 link with coil overs but it was brought to my attention that you want to mount the coils at angles for best handeling. Any comments or knowlege on this subject?

Under compression the new springs dont like running reverse of there design in compression is why the handling sucks. If they were stiff springs it would still handle somewhat OK but still against there design and softer rates just flat run right and act funny under these terms.
Being your so low to the ground a coil would also have to be really stiff since its a short travel length it runs under. If they are angles this allows a longer spring at a softer rating to make up the distance problem, but still causes other problems to arise when they do compress this direction of opposite angles but isnt real bad. Thats why bags have become the norm since there varible or even a coil over arrangement which is adjustable becomes and avenue to look into. Once your down so far it makes it hard to get everything you desire in a short travel area unless you attack it where you move location such as going upward into the vehicle and bed area for the top mounting area of the springs etc.

[firefighter]

OK so I've pretty much decided that I want the coil over/four link set up for a while now I just need to figure out the mounting of the coil over assembly I've been looking at the triangulated four link set up from Air Ride it's only about $350 and then I'll put some QA1's all of this holding my 8.5" rear if I can get my hands on one

[firefighter]

Oh and BTW the 4 link from air ride looks like they want you to mount them straight up and down is that bad for handeling?

[lowriderbowtie]

I'll just make this real simple and crude.



Blocks over 1 inch are for morons who are so cheap they shouldnt drive.



i disagree completly.

[03 Rado]

Oh and BTW the 4 link from air ride looks like they want you to mount them straight up and down is that bad for handeling?

No thats why bags have become popular even though theyve been around for awhile. Coils need room between each coil and its hard to give them proper diameter and the distance needed in a short area and maintain everything. Once you got to angling the coils there is only so much angle you can give them before you side bind them and being so low to begin with, I dont think youd be able to really get the ride unless you move the upper brackets up. Air bags contain only air and you can pick and choose between load ratings of bags and diameters to get what you want. The nice thing about bags and adjustable coilovers is the fact you can adjust sides so if it goes hard one way handling all the time you can compensate for it an always remeber your setting in case you adjust from there for other reasons.
Once youve started to go this way which is the correct way it does get expensive but the rewards are much greater also.

[03 Rado]

i disagree completly.

Blocks, coils spring spacers and the likes were originally made to make minor adjustments to suspension systems, but others found it CHEAP to use for other means. They were to be temporary in useage and not full time. Its now become a popular bandaid approach to adjusting system heights with no regard to proper geometry of such. They are and will be dangerous to use regularly and end up costing more in the long run!

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

OK. . . So, I'm guessing, then, that my front suspension is OK. So, what is the best option for the rear, then? WITHOUT resorting to bags, that is. I'm not partial to bags, and don't really care for "adjustable" (because I would ALWAYS be tinkering with it). I want something to "set and forget" and then move on.

So, what is the recommendation? I'm guessing that if I get the rear set up properly, the positive rake wouldn't be an issue, so a 4" lower stance (from a normal S-10, that is -- 2" lower stance for a ZQ8). So, what's the best option. I'd rather stay on the inexpensive side (but NOT cheap), but will spend $$$$ if necessary to achieve my purpose. NO BAGS, though.

[<-~Jo~->]

ive got a question regarding 4-link ar bags ... like the set-up air ride sells will this set-up be strong enough for high horsepower ?

[03 Rado]

The links is what makes it strong. Bags only hold height!

[03 Rado]

OK. . . So, I'm guessing, then, that my front suspension is OK. So, what is the best option for the rear, then? WITHOUT resorting to bags, that is. I'm not partial to bags, and don't really care for "adjustable" (because I would ALWAYS be tinkering with it). I want something to "set and forget" and then move on.

So, what is the recommendation? I'm guessing that if I get the rear set up properly, the positive rake wouldn't be an issue, so a 4" lower stance (from a normal S-10, that is -- 2" lower stance for a ZQ8). So, what's the best option. I'd rather stay on the inexpensive side (but NOT cheap), but will spend $$$$ if necessary to achieve my purpose. NO BAGS, though.

I cant tell you what to do, merely offer whatever knowledge I have on the issue. Each has there own arrangements they like for whatever reasons they like it. Last one I worked on was a homemade 3 link and we used bags. The bags were setup like and air shock arrangement with valves on the rear area so it could be adjusted and re-aired when needed. This setup using a Vista Cruiser rearend with one inch axles takes a 350 6-71 blown power which runs it into the 11's with no problem! If it was I , I would look into a coilover arrangement like used with coupes that do run very low to the ground or even creating your own long armed 3 link!

[<-~Jo~->]

and are these links strong enough ?

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

So it is possible to use a 4-link setup without resorting to bags. . . Coilovers instead of the bags, huh. . . The mind is whirling now.

Now, here's a REALLY dumb question: how in the HELL do you mount a 4-link setup? I don't know a damn thing about them aside from what little I've heard -- and all that I've heard is that they are the cat's ass for handling.

How do you go about installing a setup? What else is needed aside from the coilovers and the 4-link? Obviously, the leafs come out, but what else is involved?

[03 Rado]

http://www.rpmnet.com/techart/4link.shtml

http://autoweldchassis.com/newprod.ivnu

http://www.barneymc.com/toy_root/techtalk/suspensn/susp_tut.htm

If that doesnt answer it let me know!

[<-~Jo~->]

what do you mean by a cats ass to handle ? am i stupid loll ? i dont get it ...

[03 Rado]

Cats ass for us means perfect for some odd reason!

[<-~Jo~->]

ok now i understand loll

[firefighter]

I don't have the time at the moment for all that reading but I will get back to it. It seems like some great info nice post. Oh and BTW Air Ride said when I called that they have their 4 links on "1000+ hp" vehicles even if that is an exhageration it'll still take the 450hp at the wheels I'm planing to get out of a worked LS1

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Yes, "cat's ass" means "perfect."

It's an Old Fart Thing, you wouldn't understand. . .

[firefighter]

Hey I understand that an I ain't no old FART. Although at times I'll act like Red Forman.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Hey I understand that an I ain't no old FART. Although at times I'll act like Red Forman.
LMFAO!!

It's an inside joke -- no offense meant.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Another thought:

What about getting rid of the blocks and going with "drop shackles?" That would eliminate the pivot point of the blocks, but still maintain the spring rates. Also, without the blocks, it would reduce axle wrap as well. . . Just a thought.

[firefighter]

none taken just tryin to recover from last night still a little slap happy too much Jack Daniels.......

[Sparky2263]

The 4 link is your best bet. No need to be intimidated by all the adjustment as a 4 link plotting program makes it a cakewalk. With auto-x being your area you will come to absolutely love the adjustability of the 4 link.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

The 4 link is your best bet. No need to be intimidated by all the adjustment as a 4 link plotting program makes it a cakewalk. With auto-x being your area you will come to absolutely love the adjustability of the 4 link.
I'm starting to become convinced. I'm not intimidated by the adjustability -- I just don't like messing things that are already done. . . Adjustability and I do NOT get along very well. . . I spend more time adjusting -- trying to get things just perfect (a state that does NOT exist) than I do anything else. . . It's like tweaking an EQ for some people -- you fiddle with the damn EQ so much, you forget to enjoy the music! I want a straightforward "set and forget" setup, that way I can enjoy the ride and not worry about trying to "zero it in" all the time.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

Does anyone have a picture or two of an INSTALLED 4-link setup? I'm curious as to how it mounts, supports, etc. . . Diagrams only go so far, but don't take the place of actual pics. . .

How in the world does a 4-link hold the vehicle up? Or is that what the coilovers would be for?

[nomaboy]

i would think a 4-link would be damned expensive. but probably pretty cool. i always thought 4-link was not for handleing. i don't know much though.

[Sparky2263]

The coil-overs are the spring and shock in one package. Infinitely adjustable, spring rates easily changed, the best of both worlds. With adjustable shock valving it gets even better.

Take a look at the links 03Rado provided. Good pics and very informative. If you buy your 4-link from Competition Engineering you get a 4 link plotter free. Fun to play with.

A truck is the easiest to install a 4 link 'cause the bed comes off rather than having to work under a car.

[LoRyder]

About your first post, where you are worried about bottoming out, do you have your bumpstop brackets removed? I've got 3inch blocks on my Zq8 leafs, and bottomed out alot until I cut off the whole bumpstop bracket.

From what I've heard, is that a 4 link is the way to go. There are two kinds of 4 links, the triangulated 4 link and the parallel 4 link. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
The triangulated will keep side to side movement of the axel down quite abit, but will change your pinion angle slightly during suspension travel.
The parallel 4 link gives you great strength and stability front to rear and elliminates the axel rotation that you have with the triangulated version. The disadvantage of the parallel 4 link is that there is less side to side stability, but this problem is usually addressed by adding a panhard bar.

Now if you really want a challenge, you should put in a Corvette IRS system! That would be the cats ass!

[firefighter]

If you want to see a Triangulated 4 Link just look under an old A or G body ie. MonteCarlo, Cutlass, Regal etc. My '79 has got one. The car handles well and rides like glass the only deal with the factory set up is that they used stamped arms and they tend to flex under alot of power. Thats why companies like Edelbrock and Hotchkis have "strong arm kits". I think it's supposed to be second only to IRS like in a 'Vette.

[Supercharged-ZQ8]

I'm back to thinking on this again. . .

Looking at Belltech's offerings, I'm seeing a 4" drop leaf set (p/n 5954). Here's the million dollar question: are those leafs for ALL S-Series trucks, or only for the "standard height" suspensions? Being that I have a ZQ8 and an additional 2" drop, (total of 3.5" to 4"), would the 4" leafs be what I'm after? There is no documentation anywhere saying what the difference is. . .

As far as I know, the ZQ8 leafs could be stop, but have different shackles or could be a different arc, or have one less leaf, or could even be "normal" leafs but with different attachment points. Does anyone have a definitive answer? Are the ZQ8 leafs themselves different, or are they the same but attached differently? More importantly: would the 4" Belltech leaves be the equivalent of a ZQ8 with an additional 2" drop? (I've given up on the idea of an additional 1" -- I'm sticking with the ZQ8 and 2" drop, so if these leafs will work, then I'll go with those).

[lowriderbowtie]

ZQ8 leafs are just a stock leaf pack with 1 leaf taken out by the factory beleive it or not. thoes 4" belltech leafs WILL fit your truck...you will see only a 1-2" drop (you get the full drop of the leafs if you have an xcab) you could make some drop shackles if you wanted, or i think you can buy them, im not sure.

i was looking at Sparky's cardomain thing and he did something pretty damn cool to lower the back of his blazer, check that out

[firefighter]

I've got the Belltechs on the Blazer X and in a word they SUCK they will drop the vehicle about 2" but the will be flat and have no arch and the ride will blow they do not even handle well either. I'm looking into the 4 link.

[ZR1-S10]

I love my Belltech leafs, there nice and soft for good ride and squat for traction but the drop (lower center of gravity) and the stiff shocks that I use provide good handling.

[xtc_customs]

zq8 leaves are altogether a differant spring .
the beltech 4" drop leaves that beltech offers are nothing more than 3" drops with a 1" block attached . they are also a little softer than stock . you may not be happy with the result in autocross . it might be worth your while to have the stock pack dearched . it should result in a drop with the same stiffness . might be worth lookin into .
also a member on another forum has said he found a huge differance in handleing using front side helper springs from either hotchkiss or helliweg . stiffer sway bars would be well worth looking into as well as switching all poly bushings .

[lowriderbowtie]

Ya i really like the way my belltech 5954 leafs ride. along with the 3" blocks, nitro shocks, and ZQ8 sway bar..she really sits flat in the corners (just bottoms out way to much)

getting stockers de-arched is good thing to look into also. wouldnt cost more than $50 per pack either.

[freeky192]

aim industries offers a 4 link kit complete with bags for $369 sounds like a good price any one ever used any of their stuff. hows the quality

[lowriderbowtie]

i would try stay clear of AIM (aka SHAIM)
www.suicidedoors.com (http://www.suicidedoors.com) sells all kinds of link kits for pretty cheap. www.ridetech.com (http://www.ridetech.com) also has excelent products