Wynjammer Trouble

[Finkle]

well the other day i heard a little griding/rubbing noise comin from my supercharger. the good thing is it happened in a parking lot so i wasnt goin fast at all or had loud music playin so i heard it. The first thing i did was shut my truck off and tried startin it again hoping the noise would go away. Well it didnt, so i ended up cutting off the belt, and drove home, so far i dont think there is any engine damage.
I talked to Al a llittle while ago and he told me to send the blower right on back to him and he would take care of every thing, i had a friend at a machine shop look at the blower and he said that the turbine actually had some play in it and it was hitting the casing, imma have to wait to see what al says and what he does with it, hopefully i dont have much down time

[flatblack]

same thing happened to me....

[Finkle]

did u ever figure out what caused ur supercharger to mess up. i never thought crap like this would be happenin. But oh well.
What did Al do for u, did he fix the problem or just ship you a new one

[flatblack]

its never supposed to happen to you, i thought the same thing....seems to me like the bearings loosened or something to where the fins were rubbing against the housing....the particles from the fins went into my engine, and i had internal engine damage....thus al paid for part of a replacment motor, and sent me a new s/c, which i sold, to try to recoup the cost of the new engine....i have thus come to realize the extra functionality of an intercooler as not only to cool air but to block pieces of metal from getting into your engine.....

[Finkle]

yea i was thinkin of putting up some sort of screen but it wouldnt make sense, i dont want to have a direct path for something to break off and go into my engine. But i dont think it would be too practical cause it would prob cause me more trouble than anyhting. Maybe an intercooler would be nice

[Waynestowels]

Same thing happened to me...,
All 10 fins broke off, went into te engine.
Still waiting to find out how much damage to te engine.
Al has the S/C, so waiting on a verdict to that too...

Maybe N/A is not all that bad:(

The bad part is that my truck only ha 25,000 miles on it and I DO NOT want it to have any damage as I really took care of it!!

[s10xtremist]

Geez. You guys are scaring me. Y'all make me want to sell my Wynjammer right now!

[Maximus]

You all might wanna get a inter cooler just for the added protection.And of course the actual benefits the inter cooler brings.Of course you really shouldn't feel you need one but I too would be nervous if I owned a jammer knowing two went bad and caused engine damage"if that is the case in both applications".But it could also just be 100% bad luck that all products have for somebody.I hope everything works out and keep us posted on everything.

[flatblack]

Holy crap wayne, this major sucks!!! i know exactly how you feel...i bet Al is ready to pull his hair out...i wonder if a powerdyne, or a vortech has ever had this problem?? Wayne, did you drive your truck to the shop or did you have to have it towed?? I had to have mine towed, i would hardly run...sounded like a clanking metal box when i blew....you know the real kicker is that its such a good design...has more than efficient power over the comp. and it installs in half the time!!!! KICKKKKKKKKEEERRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!! in the nuts....

[Sparky2263]

Got an idea. Why don't one of you guys (in your communication with Al) ask him if he wanted to address the issue here. Probably lay some anxiety to rest at the least.

[Waynestowels]

I didn't have it towed.
It was my 1st S/C and was not sure what was happening..., I didn't know I was supposed to stop!! (at least I was on my way home and close...)

Of course, I didn't expect the S/C to fall apart either (all 10 fans broke off and my intake was "full" of metal shavings)
I called Al, he said to ship it back, I did and the truck has not moved since.
It really sucks since this was a show truck and not a "hot rod" truck and I was just driving normal on my way home..., and only 25,000 miles on the truck with a VERY GOOd runing motor.

Keep me posted:)

[flatblack]

Well those shaving are probably sitting on top of your pistons....thats where they were when i took apart my blown engine....i would definitly if you have the time and money take it in and spend the money to take the heads off and remove the metal, other wise it will cost you a new motor sooner or later....

[Waynestowels]

Thanks,
I will check into it.

I am not a mechanic..., so I had a shop that specializes in this type work do the install..., I thought I would be safe.
I can't believe my engine is possibly trashed..., it was a perfect engine, more power and better gas milage than all the other S10's I have been around.
It is really getting to stress me.

Since there is absolutely no safety built in, I may just sell the S/C..., I had no idea they were this dangerous to your engine or could just fall apart in normal driving (I was in the city, under 45mph when "it happened".

I am thinking N/A is the way to go for show truvks, everyday driving and everything else, except racing, where you plan to rebuild your engine all the time anyhow!!!
UUHHHGGGGG!!!!

[flatblack]

I know how you feel man....i'm not a mechanic either...i'm in the same boat you are...except i had to replace my engine...you need to let Al know that he needs to help you with the cost of fixing or whatever needs to be done to make it right...he helped me, sounds like hes gonna be helpin more people than he expected...

[Waynestowels]

I am praying nothing is wrong with my engine!!

I removed all the big pieces and it is mostly shavings inside, although it has not been pulled apart yet.

I called Al this morning and we discussed safety measures.
He is going to place a screen to catch anything if it comes apart again.
Al is working on my S/C today and is looking for problems, is going to rebuild it and then test it.
He plans to upgrade the impeller in the future to help prevent this from happening.

My email is-
waynejitsu@hotmail.com
if you would like to contact me personally.

[Maximus]

Did either one of you have your MAF screen removed.Obviously it made it past flatblack's screen if he had one in.Im just wondering if you looked at your screen to see if there are big gaping holes in it.Because if it does something damn sure made it past the screen.Of course they are not bullet proof but it might give you an idea if anything large made it into the engine.This really should be addressed to people on here by AL.One persons going bad I might think it's just one of those things.But two makes me think OK something is wrong.

[Waynestowels]

The MAF screen is before the S/C..., at least it is on a 4.3 V6.

Al is thinking about adding a screen after the S/C- "just in case".

He has sold a lot of S/C's and so far only two is a good record..., problem is- if anything is to go wrong, somehow I am in the middle of it!!! @#%&(@$^#!!!!!

I am just glad Al is not like a lot of manufacturers..., he is accessable and is working to fix the problem.
Maybe this weekend I will be able to start my S10 to see if there is any noticable damage.

(I had an accident several months ago and am in the middle of surgeries, one for my wife on Monday, one for me on wednesday..., this TOTALLY SUCKS!!!)

[Maximus]

That's right I thought that because of the head unit placement someone said he had to have the MAF closer to the throttle body after the supercharger.Well anyway I would damn sure get that engine looked at closely.If you knew someone who had a bore scope to look down inside the cylinder you could maybe get a idea what made it through or if any damage was done to the piston or cylinder walls.One very handy tool to have that has hundreds of uses in the automotive field.Mine has paid for it's self hundreds of times.

[Finkle]

i had the exact same thing happen to me but i heard it as it was happenin and cut my belt and nothin made it into my engine. im still waitin to hear from AL. Ive been talkin to a few ppl and they said to make up a screen and put it right after the supercharger, but they said the only problem with that is you better make sure that the screen is in there, dont want the screen goin into the engine.

[Matt 4.3 TBI]

I've been giving this some thought as well.

If you use a screen as a fail safe, how tight will it need to be? There will have to be a trade off between protection and airflow. Even if it does stop impeller fragments, metal shavings and particles will still get into the engine. I would be very worried about driving it after the S/C blows up, screen or not. I'd be worried something made it past the screen and was hard at work scuffing up my cylinder walls.

It just seems like we're looking at this problem from the wrong end...the consumer shouldnt be responsible to making up failsafes for a product.

What's Al said about this? Is he going to alter the design and offer to replace the other units that haven't failed? Are these just flukes, or is there something seriously wrong with the design?

[Waynestowels]

Al told me it was a fluke, but it looks like more failure reports are trickling in..., as I am no longer the only one this happened to.

I still have not checked my engine...,
My wife's father just dies this weekend, my grandmother in in the hospital, possible stroke, my wife is scheduled for surgery on Monday, I have surgery Wednesday..., all this and no truck (it was our best vehicle and most reliable mode of transportation.)

It really burns me up that this happened, especially at a time when we really need it.

[flatblack]

Damn....where is oprah when you need her!!! j/k ;)

[rdk1ll]

Any Updates?

[flatblack]

^^^ ya wayne...whats the deal leaving us in the dark???...;)

[Waynestowels]

I have not recieved it back yet...,
I just had surgery, so not working on the truck at this time.

Al did say the bearings went bad and that this was not a widespread problem.

Thats all the info I have so far.
When it gets reinstalled, I will let everyone know, but will most likley be some time as surgery was more painfull than expected.

[D-Caf]

Well take care of yourself and heal up quick.

I certainly hope this isn't a widespread problem. I've looked over my jammer and don't see anything amis on it. Seems to be running strong still. I'm wondering if something happened because of the huge rush order with the group buy and maybe the company that assembles the head units for Al got caught off guard.

[Waynestowels]

"I'm wondering if something happened because of the huge rush order with the group buy and maybe the company that assembles the head units for Al got caught off guard."

Good possibility..., when things get rushed, quality usually goes down and things get missedin the process.

Al said he is working on some new parts that would make the design even better.
I wouldlike to have the new parts upgraded too:)

[Finkle]

i just talked to al about my supewrcharger and he said it was my bearing that went. Not too sure how but he said he could see the play in the turbine. He also said that they are working on a bigger and better bearing for the superchargers. Another thing he did was put a screen on the end of my superchager, just incase i had any problems and something broke off the screen would stop it. i asked him if the screen would restrict any airflow and he said it would be minimal. Im hoping to have it back sometime next week

[Waynestowels]

I have been hoping to get my S/C for a while too:(

[Joe]

tell him to keep them and refund your money. I am glad I got rid of mine when i did, " whats that screen for????" "ohh thats so that whn my s/c fails it wont blow my engine.

[Maximus]

Boy this has turn in to a incident.I wonder if he is gonna replace the bearings in everyones superchargers just in case.

[Finkle]

same thing i was wondering and i also wanna know if the new bearings will be used in all the superchargers and if so thee is no way im goin to pay shipping for the blower to go all the way back down to arizona, from British Columbia its a lot of money

[Waynestowels]

Finkle,
Your truck looks "almost" like my truck, even the hood, LOL!! (nice:)

My S/C arrived today.
It looks different, but I can not imagine what it is..., I am just glad to have it back!!

I still have not had the time to see if the truck even starts. I have it under a NOAH cover and that is where it has been since this happened. (I do need to put the battery on trickle charge to keep it from dying too)

[biglouie_underpressure]

Boy this has turn in to a incident.I wonder if he is gonna replace the bearings in everyones superchargers just in case.
it's not all the bearings just a bad batch.

[Joe]

it's not all the bearings just a bad batch.

I bought mine back in may of 05 and my bearings started to growl, And mine was way before that whole group buy .
I like the simplicity of the design, but I don't think enough testing went into it , The main problem is the bearing, spend the money andput a GOOd bearing in there to eliminate impller play, on top of that take out a few more mm on the housing but where the impeller rides, I am not saying that that will solve the problem, but it will prolong the blowers life.
Must be that "exotic" high speed grease, lol.
But by putting a screen after the exhaust of the blower head is the most rediculous thing I ever heard of.
Dont get me wrong, I am not ripping on AL or his product, But as a consumer I wouldnt want to spend $2500 on "exotic" grease, and a screen to catch the broken peices of the impeller.

[biglouie_underpressure]

did you read what i said? all that bs your wrote and nothing had to do with that statement i said. lol well thats you i'm getting ready to buy my third

[Joe]

did you read what i said? all that bs your wrote and nothing had to do with that statement i said. lol well thats you i'm getting ready to buy my third

Oh I quoted the wrong person, I ment to quote the other guy that said it may be from the group buy being rushed.
And what I said was not BS, Wether you want to read it or not its my opinion. As being a previous owner I think I am intitled to say how I feel about the situation. And you say you are on your third correct???.
Well let me guess, your truck isnt even a Daily Driver is it??? I am pretty sure that I read a while back that you said it wasnt so. My statement goes out to those that rely on their trucks evryday of the week.
Not someone who drives it a 1/4 mile at a time.

[D-Caf]

Oh I quoted the wrong person, I ment to quote the other guy that said it may be from the group buy being rushed.
And what I said was not BS, Wether you want to read it or not its my opinion. As being a previous owner I think I am intitled to say how I feel about the situation. And you say you are on your third correct???.
Well let me guess, your truck isnt even a Daily Driver is it??? I am pretty sure that I read a while back that you said it wasnt so. My statement goes out to those that rely on their trucks evryday of the week.
Not someone who drives it a 1/4 mile at a time.

Just curious, you said that you were having issues with it before you sold it, and yet in your post about selling it:

http://www.sicgmtrucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3032

You said there was nothing wrong with it. So was there something wrong with it and you were trying to get rid of it onto unsuspecting members of the board? Or was there nothing wrong with it, and you've just been kinda upset about getting rid of it, or want to jump on a bandwagon about the horrors of the Wynjammer?

Sorry I just don't like the idea of members hiding stuff from other members on the board, just be straight up about it. Oh and for the record the group purchase was in March and I received mine in May, so about the same time as you are saying you got yours. Depending on if the jammer was pieced together with parts already there, or from new parts coming in to fill the large order spike may determine that status of the bearings.

Also, my wynjammer is a daily driver. I'll admit, I'm a little nervous about the issues others have had with their's, but I've got almost 5 months on mine and no problems yet with the S/C. I will be keeping a close eye on it though, but still love the thing, and now with my wider tires (255/55-18 on 18x8.5 wheels) I get much better hookup.

[Joe]

Just curious, you said that you were having issues with it before you sold it, and yet in your post about selling it:

http://www.sicgmtrucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3032

You said there was nothing wrong with it. So was there something wrong with it and you were trying to get rid of it onto unsuspecting members of the board? Or was there nothing wrong with it, and you've just been kinda upset about getting rid of it, or want to jump on a bandwagon about the horrors of the Wynjammer?

Sorry I just don't like the idea of members hiding stuff from other members on the board, just be straight up about it. Oh and for the record the group purchase was in March and I received mine in May, so about the same time as you are saying you got yours. Depending on if the jammer was pieced together with parts already there, or from new parts coming in to fill the large order spike may determine that status of the bearings.

Also, my wynjammer is a daily driver. I'll admit, I'm a little nervous about the issues others have had with their's, but I've got almost 5 months on mine and no problems yet with the S/C. I will be keeping a close eye on it though, but still love the thing, and now with my wider tires (255/55-18 on 18x8.5 wheels) I get much better hookup.

According to Al the play in the impeller shaft WAS normal, I didnt trust his judgment on it at all. So I sold it on ebay. I did not lie to other members, I said I was strickly getting sick of it, the truck everything. I sold the s10, I sold my new bike, and I sold my quad. Then I went out to the dealer ship and bought a fullsize, and a brand new quad.
I am in NO WAY UPSET for getting rid of my s/c or my truck.
As for the group purchase I bought mine about a month before the group purchase, so my order was by no means rushed.
Now that people are having problems with thiers I am commin foward to say How I felt about mine.
If anyone is upset it should be the 2-or3 guys that have had nothing but problems with thiers. And blown motors. You have to understand somthing, If you guys wanna have a blower with a screen to catch the broken pieces than by all means fine thats your opinion, But tthat just tells me somtyhing about the product thats all.

[D-Caf]

According to Al the play in the impeller shaft WAS normal, I didnt trust his judgment on it at all. So I sold it on ebay. I did not lie to other members, I said I was strickly getting sick of it, the truck everything. I sold the s10, I sold my new bike, and I sold my quad. Then I went out to the dealer ship and bought a fullsize, and a brand new quad.
I am in NO WAY UPSET for getting rid of my s/c or my truck.
As for the group purchase I bought mine about a month before the group purchase, so my order was by no means rushed.
Now that people are having problems with thiers I am commin foward to say How I felt about mine.
If anyone is upset it should be the 2-or3 guys that have had nothing but problems with thiers. And blown motors. You have to understand somthing, If you guys wanna have a blower with a screen to catch the broken pieces than by all means fine thats your opinion, But tthat just tells me somtyhing about the product thats all.

Ok, fair enough, I just wanted to make sure that was clear. It just wasn't sounding good they way you had sold it and then posted in this thread, but I'll take your word on what you said above is accurate.

I'll also agree that the ones upset should be the ones who have had their blowers die or engines damaged, that would suck a LOT and I would be damned pissed if it happened to me. I just want to get as many facts as possible and as few rumors as possible so those who have Wynjammers or those thinking of buying them can be aware of what's going on.

[Joe]

I understand completly, I am just trying to help everyone. I just think that more should be done for you guys that have the blowers to ensure that there is not going to be a problem, other than putting in a screen.

[Sparky2263]

I am mildly surprised Al hasn't been here to address the blower issues.

[Maximus]

I'm gonna chime in here on this just a bit from my view.I have been talking to Al and man do I mean talking.That guy can just go on and on but is cool as hell.I had been talking to him about a supercharger because I am almost done building my 4.3 CPI engine I have been working on for too damn long lol.I am just waiting on a few small but necessary parts to finish it up.The engine alone is done I just picked it up from the machine shop a few weeks back and finished assembly today on it.It's gonna be one screaming little V6 N/A by it's self.He is gonna build me a 6 lb. kit for it.With the compression I'm running I don't really wanna go any higher than that but I want more than the basic 4lb. kit.I might add more boost later but for now 6lb. it will be.From my talks with him the problem was just a very few in the thousand.Look at how many there is on the road with quite a few miles on them.I mean even the best company products have had a batch or so of bad products come out of the thousands of good ones.Look at the S10 in general.The large majority are tough trucks that take a beating and are some of the most dependable trucks on the market.I mean it ain't nothing to see a 4.3 with 150 to 200k miles on them and still run strong as hell.But there are some of them that are just prone to problems and run bad in general.Those S10 owners would swear that the S10 is junk and don't buy one.But the thousands of us that have great trucks think other wise from the experiences we have had with ours.I'm just saying it happens to all products out there.There is bound to be a few bad ones in the bunch no matter how superior the quality and assembly of the maker is.And from what I gathered from him why he is adding the screen to some of them he is building now is for a just in case.But I don't think he will be doing it permanently on all his blowers.Just on some for awhile to locate a possible problem if there is one at all.I take pride in my work and my reputation for my service around my way is pretty good for a guy who just does it on the side.But I have had some work come back that I couldn't explain what caused the problem.They are a few and very far between.Everyone is the automotive field will attest to that.I also doubt that other supercharger companies would take care of the customer as well as Al does and take care of everything.I am willing to bet they would try to blame the failure on the installer or with the vehicle.Some might not but i bet the large majority would.And Sparky if you have talked with Al he is just not the type of person to post on message board that often.He will damn sure talk your leg of on the phone if anyone with concerns wanted to call him lol.I have no experience with a Wynjammer but a friend of mine with a Mustang has one and he would swear by it and he is very rough on cars.To me he is to rough on them but it's his money.Note the Mustang blower is different but it's still a Wynjammer.His is also one of the only blowers I have ever seen that after running the hell out of it you can pop the hood and lay your hand on it and not have to remove it pretty fast.It's just mildly warm.But everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that.And like I said I have no experience with Wynjammer blowers personally but I am gonna be buying one real soon.

[lyonsfam1]

I have to agree i have had my jammer on since April and i race it almost every weekend at the track then i drive it back and forth to work about 300+ miles a week.

true something could happen but I'm not gonna live on the "mights" and "maybe's". I will keep a close eye on it and everything else on my truck like always .

[94s10]

i agree as well. its not hard to search the net and find pics of busted procharger or vortech impellers (or any other centrifugal blower), no one seems to talk about them though...

[biglouie_underpressure]

Oh I quoted the wrong person, I ment to quote the other guy that said it may be from the group buy being rushed.
And what I said was not BS, Wether you want to read it or not its my opinion. As being a previous owner I think I am intitled to say how I feel about the situation. And you say you are on your third correct???.
Well let me guess, your truck isnt even a Daily Driver is it??? I am pretty sure that I read a while back that you said it wasnt so. My statement goes out to those that rely on their trucks evryday of the week.
Not someone who drives it a 1/4 mile at a time.
LOLOLOL i drive my truck to school wtf are you talking about? yes your intitled to say what you want but just don't bring that shyt my way. "1/4 mile at a time" classic! my truck was in the 7's with my jammer before i pulled the motor for the stroker.....

[biglouie_underpressure]

I am mildly surprised Al hasn't been here to address the blower issues.
why would he? not to ask for the planets help and i'm sure ppl know whats going on.

[biglouie_underpressure]

I'm gonna chime in here on this just a bit from my view.I have been talking to Al and man do I mean talking.That guy can just go on and on but is cool as hell.I had been talking to him about a supercharger because I am almost done building my 4.3 CPI engine I have been working on for too damn long lol.I am just waiting on a few small but necessary parts to finish it up.The engine alone is done I just picked it up from the machine shop a few weeks back and finished assembly today on it.It's gonna be one screaming little V6 N/A by it's self.He is gonna build me a 6 lb. kit for it.With the compression I'm running I don't really wanna go any higher than that but I want more than the basic 4lb. kit.I might add more boost later but for now 6lb. it will be.From my talks with him the problem was just a very few in the thousand.Look at how many there is on the road with quite a few miles on them.I mean even the best company products have had a batch or so of bad products come out of the thousands of good ones.Look at the S10 in general.The large majority are tough trucks that take a beating and are some of the most dependable trucks on the market.I mean it ain't nothing to see a 4.3 with 150 to 200k miles on them and still run strong as hell.But there are some of them that are just prone to problems and run bad in general.Those S10 owners would swear that the S10 is junk and don't buy one.But the thousands of us that have great trucks think other wise from the experiences we have had with ours.I'm just saying it happens to all products out there.There is bound to be a few bad ones in the bunch no matter how superior the quality and assembly of the maker is.And from what I gathered from him why he is adding the screen to some of them he is building now is for a just in case.But I don't think he will be doing it permanently on all his blowers.Just on some for awhile to locate a possible problem if there is one at all.I take pride in my work and my reputation for my service around my way is pretty good for a guy who just does it on the side.But I have had some work come back that I couldn't explain what caused the problem.They are a few and very far between.Everyone is the automotive field will attest to that.I also doubt that other supercharger companies would take care of the customer as well as Al does and take care of everything.I am willing to bet they would try to blame the failure on the installer or with the vehicle.Some might not but i bet the large majority would.And Sparky if you have talked with Al he is just not the type of person to post on message board that often.He will damn sure talk your leg of on the phone if anyone with concerns wanted to call him lol.I have no experience with a Wynjammer but a friend of mine with a Mustang has one and he would swear by it and he is very rough on cars.To me he is to rough on them but it's his money.Note the Mustang blower is different but it's still a Wynjammer.His is also one of the only blowers I have ever seen that after running the hell out of it you can pop the hood and lay your hand on it and not have to remove it pretty fast.It's just mildly warm.But everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that.And like I said I have no experience with Wynjammer blowers personally but I am gonna be buying one real soon.
lemme know when your ready i have a couple extras you can have

[biglouie_underpressure]

I understand completly, I am just trying to help everyone. I just think that more should be done for you guys that have the blowers to ensure that there is not going to be a problem, other than putting in a screen.
back to the screen... i'm sure Al didn't come up with that idea but he'll do anything to make anyone happy. not trying to war with you but your saying the same stuff.hell Al doesn't make bearings; this problem could be from claims another company made to him who knows but i know he doesn't have a reason to spend all his time in money to develop an s/c to put ****ty bearings in them.what do you know about wynjammer?

[Maximus]

He actually uses the best ceramic bearings available.Which is why I still think it was one of those one in a thousand flukes.Or like Louie said it could be the fault of one of his suppliers.And Louie I will take any Wynjammer parts you wanna send my way.PM me and I will give you my shipping address in a heartbeat.

[Joe]

back to the screen... i'm sure Al didn't come up with that idea but he'll do anything to make anyone happy. not trying to war with you but your saying the same stuff.hell Al doesn't make bearings; this problem could be from claims another company made to him who knows but i know he doesn't have a reason to spend all his time in money to develop an s/c to put ****ty bearings in them.what do you know about wynjammer?
I know just as much about wynjammer as Al has told me.,Like I said, dont jump ndown my throat because you dont like what I say.
Keep makin excuses on what you think was the problem. And I will kepp stating The FACTS about the WYNJAMMER that I OWNED. ,
Did it make a difference in the engine performance?? Yes it did.
Did I trust the setup, not one bit after the impeller had play that I was told was "normal".

[LilYellowZQ8]

Just got done reading this and this is what I have come up with. Whenever you decide to go forced induction, weather it be an S/C, Turbocharger, Nitrous, leaf blower, you are taking a risk of blowing up your engine or other parts like the tranny, injectors, fuel pump, etc... If someone tells you that going forced induction is safe, then the vehicle that they have is not an everyday driver. Any kind of forced induction will take its toll on an engine or its related parts in a matter of time. You can't just strap a Weiand 6-71 blower on your daily driver and expect it to run flawlessly. It probably won't make it past 15,000 miles before needing rebuilt, it comes with the territory. You have to pay to play. Basically, in a nutshell, you know the risks of adding an S/C "could" cause damage to your engine weather it be your fault or manufacturer defect, you still went ahead and decided to risk your engine in persuit of more power. Like I said before, it comes with the territory.

[Joe]

Just got done reading this and this is what I have come up with. Whenever you decide to go forced induction, weather it be an S/C, Turbocharger, Nitrous, leaf blower, you are taking a risk of blowing up your engine or other parts like the tranny, injectors, fuel pump, etc... If someone tells you that going forced induction is safe, then the vehicle that they have is not an everyday driver. Any kind of forced induction will take its toll on an engine or its related parts in a matter of time. You can't just strap a Weiand 6-71 blower on your daily driver and expect it to run flawlessly. It probably won't make it past 15,000 miles before needing rebuilt, it comes with the territory. You have to pay to play. Basically, in a nutshell, you know the risks of adding an S/C "could" cause damage to your engine weather it be your fault or manufacturer defect, you still went ahead and decided to risk your engine in persuit of more power. Like I said before, it comes with the territory.


I couldnt have said it better myself.

[Joker2040]

Anytime more power is added then you are risking damage to any mechanical part.

I personally like to push the envelope. Have I had any major problems? Yes sir... My effn driveshaft. I don't know if this was nitrous related but it keeps jacking up.

If you want to run error free then don't factor in power it's that simple. There is no need to jump on people for their opinions of performance enhancing products. Everyone has had good and bad experiences. Share them so that others can get an idea of something good/bad. Don't hate on someone for not liking your idea.

[biglouie_underpressure]

nice edit job sparky i guess my post didn't count this time?lets try this again

[KRUZER1]

Man alive you guys!! My next big purchase was gonna be the 6psi setup from Al himself looked like a damn good setup i was gonna ask if anyone had used it, now that i know the answer to that! Best of luck to you guys and please post whatever response to all this Al has. I guess ill hold off till i can get an intercooler.

[Sparky2263]

A member here has his S/C for sale. 94S10 I believe.

[Finkle]

i was talkin to AL and he said it was only a few bearings that went bad, it happenes to everyone i mean if we look into all the other companies they all have issues too, just luck of the draw and how you take care of it.

i also heard that with an intercooler you lose about 1-2psi of boost, now is that true and if so why

[Joker2040]

With an IC you will lose boost pressure. To say how much you will lose will depend on the type of supercharger/turbocharger you have and the size of IC you slap on top of it.

[Joker2040]

BUT.... Why push 10lbs of hot air into your engine when you can put in 8lbs of cooler air and get the same rwhp gain? Lower boost will always be better on the engine.


NOTE: These are just opinions of mine and I'm not running a boosted setup. More of a vacuum setup. ;)

[Sparky2263]

i also heard that with an intercooler you lose about 1-2psi of boost, now is that true and if so why

The job of the intercooler is to remove heat from the pressurized air passing through it. As it does this, the air condenses. Because of the condensing, the air takes up less space thereby causing a pressure drop. But, with a properly sized turbo, intercooler and tubing, you get the best of both worlds, literally having your cake and eating it too. Higher boost pressures coupled with a cooler intake charge.

Now, trying to do the same thing with a small supercharger? I honestly don't know. Are they capable of producing enough boost to overcome the intercooler and give both? As I said, I haven't personally seen it work.

[KRUZER1]

So your saying that if im running a 6lb s/c and i put a, intercooler on it i might as well just reroute my heater hose to my throttle body and keep the fan on high?Killer, Thanks for saving me some time and money!!

[Joker2040]

I honestly don't see a need for an IC on a Supercharged engine. Especially with a small boost number to start out with. IC's help out turbos a lot but this is because of the heat exchange that is coming from the extremely hot exhaust gases that spool it up. The only heat that a supercharger would be building is what comes from pressurizing the intake charge. If anything put a methanol/water injection setup.

[94s10]

So your saying that if im running a 6lb s/c and i put a, intercooler on it i might as well just reroute my heater hose to my throttle body and keep the fan on high?Killer, Thanks for saving me some time and money!!

um thats not at all what he said. at 6 psi an intercooler is a bit overkill, especially on a cool running wynjammer. an intercooler would only be beneficial on about 10psi or more. running 6psi without an intercooler ceretaily wont be like running a heater hose to your TB lol

[rat]

I honestly don't see a need for an IC on a Supercharged engine. Especially with a small boost number to start out with. IC's help out turbos a lot but this is because of the heat exchange that is coming from the extremely hot exhaust gases that spool it up. The only heat that a supercharger would be building is what comes from pressurizing the intake charge. If anything put a methanol/water injection setup.
What? I guess you should tell the ford engineers this, because they put one on at the factory on the cobra/lightning 4.6/5.4 motors. They also put one on the thunderbird 3.8s/c motors. Not only do you get heat from pressurizing, but all superchargers have an adiabatic efficiency. The action/mechanism that makes the boost adds heat as it is creating the boost.

For 6psi on a centrifugal blower an intercooler is not worth it though. If you have to retard timing water injection would be good.

You "loose" boost with an intercooler for two reasons. One is that it creates a restriction in flow. Another reason is you are cooling the compressed air, when you cool air it contracts, and becomes more dense, hence less boost. How much boost you lose depends on how hot the intake charge is, and how cool you make it. At 6 psi you probably aren't making much heat. Also, you are only making 6psi at the high rpm ranges, a lot less than 6psi at the lower rpm ranges.

[Joker2040]

I'm not a ford guy but I do know this. Ford sold Cobras with and without intercoolers on their supercharged engines. These superchargers on the Cobras weren't designed by Ford either. Try Eaton and Kenne Bell.

Also I guess I should rephrase my comment a bit. As you stated a 6psi centrifugal supercharger wouldn't need it. Different types of superchargers like a roots or twin screw will produce more heat and at hight boosts would benefit from an intercooler. I do beleive that the Fords came out with both the twin screw and roots during different years.

The roots creates the most heat but is favored by most auto industries because it is the simpliest design. Simple design means less failures in theory.



OR.... Am I 100% wrong here??? lol...

[KRUZER1]

For the record i was joking about the heater hose. i never even thought of getting an IC until reading this thread. it just kind of seemed like a 2 birds with one stone, cooler air, and a little protection incase of s/c breakdown. but if i am only running 6lb of boost then appearently its not worth it. glad i didn't jump the gun

[94s10]

For the record i was joking about the heater hose. i never even thought of getting an IC until reading this thread. it just kind of seemed like a 2 birds with one stone, cooler air, and a little protection incase of s/c breakdown. but if i am only running 6lb of boost then appearently its not worth it. glad i didn't jump the gun

add the intercooler, its an excuse to up the boost ;)

[rat]

OR.... Am I 100% wrong here??? lol...
You are correct.

Roots blower as you said are very ineficient, the worst of the forced induction in terms of efficiency. They produce almost full boost at idle though, so drivability is excelent, where you have to rev a centrifugal blower for it to make boost. Eaton is the main suplier of blowers on every thing from pontiacs, nissans, fords, and even mercedes.

Twin screw blowers on the other hand are as efficient at making boost as a centrifugal, they are in the 70-80% range as far as adiabic efficiency, and a twin screw gives instant full boost. They are also very expensive to produce, the only production vehicle i can think of that uses a twin screw is the ford gt, all of the other factory supercharged apps use eaton roots units. This is why the cobra/lightning guys like to upgrade to the kenne belle/whipple units when they have a roots blower from the factory.


I guess what i was aiming at was this, the main thing that dictates the need for an intercooler is how much timing must be retarded to battle detonation due to the heat. Once the heat is up there, and you have to really start pulling timing, then an intercooler will bennifit greatly. It would be interesting to see how much, if any timing is pulled with the wynjamer programer.

[KRUZER1]

anyone know how much boost you actually get out of a wynjammer?

[KRUZER1]

sorry i meant how much CAN you get out of a wynjammer

[94s10]

big louie ran it up to 10psi i believe.

[D-Caf]

sorry i meant how much CAN you get out of a wynjammer

You can get out just about as much as you want out of it, as long as you have the engine mods to go with it :D.

With just the basic kit and no other mods, you want to stick to the 6psi it comes with. You might beable to go to 7-8psi with just an intercooler added, but your probably going to run into fuel delivery problems. To go beyond that you really have to add more fuel to the mixture through some kind of upgraded injectors or extra injectors in the intake. To go even higher an intercooler would be a nice addition and some swapped out internals.

I imagine with a new intake/injector/pump setup for more fuel, an intercooler, the right cams/rods/rockers/cylinders, no reason you couldn't take the wynjammer well past 10psi.

As 94s10 said, I believe Big Louie ran 10psi with extra injectors and no intercooler on his wynjammer.

[KRUZER1]

"You might beable to go to 7-8psi with just an intercooler added"

didnt we just talk about how an IC would drop the boost? and exactly how would you get more boost, new impeller or just a different pulley? i looked around on the wynjammer web site and i couldnt figure what the difference is between the 4lb and 6lb kit.

[KRUZER1]

and how to hell you quote things in a reply, ive never really talked in a forum before

[Joker2040]

and how to hell you quote things in a reply, ive never really talked in a forum before


to quote a post just click on the quote button at the bottom of the post that you want to quote

[rat]

didnt we just talk about how an IC would drop the boost? and exactly how would you get more boost, new impeller or just a different pulley? i looked around on the wynjammer web site and i couldnt figure what the difference is between the 4lb and 6lb kit.
Just by changing the pulley size, to make the blower turn faster in relation to the engine. Fueling is going to be an issue, if you stick with the stock injectors, an fmu wouldn't be a bad idea cost wise, or extra injectors would probably work as well.

[D-Caf]

"You might beable to go to 7-8psi with just an intercooler added"
didnt we just talk about how an IC would drop the boost? and exactly how would you get more boost, new impeller or just a different pulley? i looked around on the wynjammer web site and i couldnt figure what the difference is between the 4lb and 6lb kit.

As rat said, it's about the fuel. Higher boost, even if it's dropped down some by the intercooler, is going to want some more fuel to go with the increased and lower temp air. You still have to avoid the PING, and that means keeping the air/fuel ratio happy. The reason the jammer is at 6psi stock, is that's about the limit of our injectors normal load. You can add an FMU to get more fuel out of the injectors, but your now pushing the injectors beyond there normal load cycle (This is what most other S/C companies due to counter the higher boost). They can handle it from what I've read (to a limit), but it's just one more thing you are adding more stress too.

[KRUZER1]

to quote a post just click on the quote button at the bottom of the post that you want to quote

thanks for the tip. does FMU stand for fuel management unit? I realize fuel pressure and whatnot would be a problem. i have no intentions of trying to get 10lbs of boost right away. I was just curious. but i did plan on a whole new throttle body, holley has a 670 CFM. i dont know how much flow that stock tbi of a 89 4.3l is but along with that a new fuel pump and a FP regulator. i would stay at 4lbs until its not a daily driver. by the way being over here in germany and not being able to talk to anyone about trucks especially anyone who shares the S10 obession this place is......well im diggin it.

[Sparky2263]

Glad you like the site. Lots of good info here from lots of guys with the "been there, done that" type experience.

[rat]

thanks for the tip. does FMU stand for fuel management unit? I realize fuel pressure and whatnot would be a problem. i have no intentions of trying to get 10lbs of boost right away. I was just curious. but i did plan on a whole new throttle body, holley has a 670 CFM. i dont know how much flow that stock tbi of a 89 4.3l is but along with that a new fuel pump and a FP regulator. i would stay at 4lbs until its not a daily driver. by the way being over here in germany and not being able to talk to anyone about trucks especially anyone who shares the S10 obession this place is......well im diggin it.
Oops, i thought we were talking '96 up 4.3's here. You can't reliably increase the fuel pressure nearly as much on a tbi, than you can with a newer motor(you can only take it up to 20psi or so before the injectors start to stick). To increase the boost safeley, you are going to need a way to increase fueling in refference to boost. You should strongly consider using some larger fuel injectors off of maybe a 454, or a 350 or something. Then, get a 2 bar map sensor, and have a new chip burned for the 2 bar map, and the bigger injectors. Finaly, a boost refferenced fuel pressure regulator would be a must. I am not sure of the limmitations as far as fueling goes with a 2 injector tbi setup. If you are running 13psi right now, naturaly aspirated, and you add 6psi of boost, then you are down to 7psi of fuel pressure. This is where a boost refferenced unit like an areomotive comes in, they will boost pressure on a 1:1 ratio with boost.

[KRUZER1]

Oops, i thought we were talking '96 up 4.3's here. You can't reliably increase the fuel pressure nearly as much on a tbi, than you can with a newer motor(you can only take it up to 20psi or so before the injectors start to stick). To increase the boost safeley, you are going to need a way to increase fueling in refference to boost. You should strongly consider using some larger fuel injectors off of maybe a 454, or a 350 or something. Then, get a 2 bar map sensor, and have a new chip burned for the 2 bar map, and the bigger injectors. Finaly, a boost refferenced fuel pressure regulator would be a must. I am not sure of the limmitations as far as fueling goes with a 2 injector tbi setup. If you are running 13psi right now, naturaly aspirated, and you add 6psi of boost, then you are down to 7psi of fuel pressure. This is where a boost refferenced unit like an areomotive comes in, they will boost pressure on a 1:1 ratio with boost.

ok baby steps please. im with you all the up to where you started doing math. so does every pound of boost cancel out 1 psi of my fuel pressure. isnt that how i went from having 13psi fuel pressure then added 6lbs boost now have 7psi? and then a boost refferenced unit like an areomotive, what kind of unit this? computer chip, computer, or a fuel pressure regulator? sorry for the hassle just didnt as much as i thought.

[94s10]

so does every pound of boost cancel out 1 psi of my fuel pressure. isnt that how i went from having 13psi fuel pressure then added 6lbs boost now have 7psi? and then a boost refferenced unit like an areomotive, what kind of unit this? computer chip, computer, or a fuel pressure regulator? sorry for the hassle just didnt as much as i thought.

your absolutely correct on the fuel pressure. the boost pressure will push against your fuel pressure so a boost referenced FPR would be helpfull. aeromotive sells a nice unit with a 1:1 ratio that has been used with great success on low fuel pressure systems such as TBI's. it raises the fuel pressure 1 psi for every 1 psi of boost pressure. i'll dig up the part number here in a minute

[KRUZER1]

your absolutely correct on the fuel pressure. the boost pressure will push against your fuel pressure so a boost referenced FPR would be helpfull. aeromotive sells a nice unit with a 1:1 ratio that has been used with great success on low fuel pressure systems such as TBI's. it raises the fuel pressure 1 psi for every 1 psi of boost pressure. i'll dig up the part number here in a minute

right on so it automatically raise my fuel pressure as my boost goes up? does it hook up pneumatically so to speak or is it done electrically?

[rat]

ok baby steps please. im with you all the up to where you started doing math. so does every pound of boost cancel out 1 psi of my fuel pressure. isnt that how i went from having 13psi fuel pressure then added 6lbs boost now have 7psi? and then a boost refferenced unit like an areomotive, what kind of unit this? computer chip, computer, or a fuel pressure regulator? sorry for the hassle just didnt as much as i thought.
Ok, so right now lets say you have no supercharger. You go wide open throttle, and you compare the pressure difference of the pressure behind the injector and compare it to the pressure of the intake manifold. Stock you should be around 13psi for this difference.

Now, what happens when the pressure is increased in the intake manifold? Well, when refferenced to atmosphere lets say we have 6psi of boost. So, there is 6 more psi in the manifold than the atmosphere. Compare this to your fuel pressure and you have 7psi. Here is a list of fuel pressures compared to manifold boost, to see how different boost pressure affects actual fuel pressure seen at the injector tip.

Boost Corrected fuel pressure
0 psi 13psi
1psi 12psi
2psi 11psi
4psi 9psi
8psi 5psi
13psi 0psi

Pressure has a relationship to flow. The more pressure the more flow through your injectors. So, you will go very lean if you don't raise the fuel pressure.

Now, what an fmu does is it raises the pressure faster than the boost, so maybe you get 2 more psi fuel pressure, for 1 psi of boost. This will give you more fuel for the engine. I don't like this idea, and you can't take it very far with tbi injectors.

So, on a fuel pressure gauge with a 1:1 rise with boost your fuel pressure should be kept at a constant 13psi, or whatever you want your base fuel pressure to be. So, here is a table for what the gauge would read

Boost Gauge reading to keep 13 corrected psi 9 (what the tip of the injector sees)
0 psi 13psi
1psi 14psi
2psi 15psi
4psi 17psi
8psi 21psi
13psi 26psi

[94s10]

just uses a tube to hook it up to a boost source, just like a mechanical boost gauge

[94s10]

btw the part number for it is 13301 at summit

[biglouie_underpressure]

With an IC you will lose boost pressure. To say how much you will lose will depend on the type of supercharger/turbocharger you have and the size of IC you slap on top of it.
yes that i have tried on another truck i'll just say don't ic a 6 lb kit.

[KRUZER1]

yes that i have tried on another truck i'll just say don't ic a 6 lb kit.

alright, good to hear that someone tried it instead a math formula of speculation. thanks all, i learned a lot on this thread. back to matter at hand what did Al do with Finkle's wynjammer? and i read something about better bearings but did it happen yet?

[biglouie_underpressure]

kruzer have you gotten a s/c kit yet? if not i'll sell you one w/ upgrades doubt u'll have a bearing problem with this s/c lol biglouie3rd@aol.com i only come on this site to read jammer stuff everyonce in a while so and e-mail would be better.

[12sws27]

boy this thread is old. yeah, im grave digging. but im real curious to whatever happened with these guys? i wonder if they kept having problems or not? i hate threads without conclusions.

[D-Caf]

Wow, yeah, old thread, can't remember what happened (of if they ever posted about it on another thread).

[12sws27]

finkle was last on- 11/24/07
flatback- 6/6/06 creepy...
Waynestowels-01-12-06

[dt4ts3]

Ya'd think they'da fixed the wnjammers issues by now. Well at least if I was trying to make a good name for my product I would have.

[12sws27]

its the same problem im having with mine. im just wondering if Al fixed theres by just putting new bearings or if they got new units. im not selling mine or giving up on it. ill just keep sending it back till it right. im not try to lose money on it 3 months after i bought it. maybe 2-3yrs down the road after ive used the hell out of it. im sure Al will get mine right. i would just like to know what the real deal is. one day illhave to repair it my self. after the warrantys up. so i'd be nice to know what Al is doing wrong.

[firefighter]

Scott u know I was thinking the other day if maybe there was a casting flaw with your head unit.

[Waynestowels]

I have sent my SC back 4x now.
I just got it back again this weekend, have not had time to install it.
I tend to think it is a design flaw as it keeps happening, over & over again...
Good news- Al stands behind the SC and repairs it-
Bad news- It gets old having to constantly take the truck apart, send the SC back, then install it again..., not to mention all of the down time and work just to keep driving a truck, that at this low mileage "should" still be maintenance free.

[12sws27]

Scott u know I was thinking the other day if maybe there was a casting flaw with your head unit.
somethings got to be wrong with it. how do you burn up 3 sets of bearings and there not be. unless he just keeps putting the same kind in. but he said the last ones were from a diffent company. so i take his word for it.

[12sws27]

how long you had yours wayne? mines only 3-4months and ive had to send it back twice. soon will be 3x. just havent removed it yet.

[D-Caf]

I have sent my SC back 4x now.
I just got it back again this weekend, have not had time to install it.
I tend to think it is a design flaw as it keeps happening, over & over again...
Good news- Al stands behind the SC and repairs it-
Bad news- It gets old having to constantly take the truck apart, send the SC back, then install it again..., not to mention all of the down time and work just to keep driving a truck, that at this low mileage "should" still be maintenance free.

Hello, good to see you again.

Sorry to hear your still having problems with yours off and on. Didn't you get yours during the same GroupBuy that I got mine? So you have the older design like mine (the compressed air goes straight out the back instead of aimed up on the newer units).

[12sws27]

did your sound anything like this?
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/th_MOV01135.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/?action=view&current=MOV01135.flv)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/th_3-1-08104.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/?action=view&current=3-1-08104.flv)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/th_3-1-08108.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/?action=view&current=3-1-08108.flv)

[Waynestowels]

how long you had yours wayne? mines only 3-4months and ive had to send it back twice. soon the be 3x. just havent removed it yet.

I have had it for a while, maybe a couple years?
I got it when there was a group buy, but was almost a year later before I had it installed after receiving it, long story..., I was in an accident right before it arrived.

[Waynestowels]

Hello, good to see you again.

Sorry to hear your still having problems with yours off and on. Didn't you get yours during the same GroupBuy that I got mine? So you have the older design like mine (the compressed air goes straight out the back instead of aimed up on the newer units).

Thank you:)
Yes, I got mine from the group buy.
I didn;t know there was a "new, improved design".
If that is the case, we should get the new one when we send our old, broken SC back, especially after so many times...

[Waynestowels]

did your sound anything like this?
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/th_MOV01135.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/?action=view&current=MOV01135.flv)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/th_3-1-08104.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/?action=view&current=3-1-08104.flv)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/th_3-1-08108.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/12sws27/?action=view&current=3-1-08108.flv)


No, not at all, mine sounded BAD!!
More like "clunk, thump, chunk, clank, bam, boom"
It was REALLY making scarry noises!

[12sws27]

Thank you:)
Yes, I got mine from the group buy.
I didn;t know there was a "new, improved design".
If that is the case, we should get the new one when we send our old, broken SC back, especially after so many times...
i dont think anything but the outlet was changed. cuz mines new. how improved it is... idk? :rolleyes:

[12sws27]

i think im catching it before that. it sounds to me that after a bit of driving, the impeller starts to wobble a bit. then scrapes the inside of the housing. i dont drive much more than a few blocks a day so it starts happening slow.