Alignment HElp!

[j894]

OK, early last week I got 2 new front tires then went for an alignment.

Got it aligned, it had been out of spec. They gave me the printout of what it was before & after the alignment. Didn't drive it much for a day or 2.

Later in the week when I had to go to work I noticed it pulls to the left, a lot.
I took it back this Tuesday. they checked it out again. Was within specs, & same as when they adjusted it. They adjusted the camber on the driver side to compensate for this pull.

I took it for a ride after they re-did it, & it still pulls to the left. Not as bad, don't have to fight the wheel as much to keep it straight. but even while going at a slow speed on a straight, level road, it will pull to the left.

My question is, Why would it do this if its not out of alignment & the camber angle were within factory specs? It didnt do this before the alignment. I know the new tires were balanced. Or is there a possibility a weight or something could of fell off.

What should I do?? bring it back again or is there something else wrong?
I'll see if i can find the printout, and anyone tell me if its right

[j894]

Here are the specs from the first time around:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i44/j894/719913f9.jpg

number in red on the upper right is a -0.25

Wish i would of never taken it for an alignment


the printout for the redo (which I dont have), I believe the left side camber was brought to *1 or something, which it shows as just in spec, but it still pulls left.

If anyone can make sense of all that & give me advise I would be greatfull!
thanks!

[j894]

anyone?

[Hammer Head]

Could have been aligned to book specs & not current road specs. Depending on where you are not all roads have the same crown to them. It may be pulling left because they have it set for the book spec & the road is not crowned as much as the book dictates. Just a thought.

[Sparky2263]

Well hell yeah it's gonna pull left. .6 degs cross camber to the left will induce a pull on any rear drive car.

Get the camber dead even side to side and use .3 degs less caster on the left to compensate for road crown.

Remember, pulls induce on the side with the least caster or most camber. No more than .2 degs difference for camber and .5 degs for caster.

I use caster to compensate for road crown because camber induces wear on the inside or outside of the tire (inside/negative, outside/positive). Think of caster as bicycle or motorcycle fork angle. For us, the more the better. Lots of caster induces lots of camber on turns. Big plus. Also returns the wheel to center and keeps it there.

[j894]

So let me get this straight, are all the numbers in the "specified ranges" on the printout, supposed to meet somewhere near the middle? with the exception of the left caster to compensate for the road crown & whatnot?
Just trying to fallow this a little bit.

Didn't know much about the alignment stuff to know if it was wrong, even as it said it here right in front of me.

I have an idea of what you mean with the cross camber thing, wasn't sure what all the numbers indicated. I had no clue about the significance, & its clearly right there on the printout for myself & them to see.

Figures, ****ing idiots. Think Im gonna just ask for my money back & go to someone who has a clue as to what the hell they're doing. This would be the 3rd timing Im going there for the same damn thing.

Thats Firestone for ya.

[Sparky2263]

Yes, an alignment can be totally within the specs and cause pulls and totally wear out the tires. That's because you have to consider 2 tires working together, not just each separately.

Go ahead and let them re-do it one more time. It'll be just the left side that needs caster/camber adjustment.

When they re-set the toe, tell 'em you'd like around .012" toe-in so you don't eat up the insides of the tires. Lots of slop in our front ends. As speed increases the front wheels toe out. Need to start with toe-in to keep 'em close to 0" on the highway. And under braking.

My preferred specs on your truck? 4 degs caster (if enough ajustment) 0.2 camber and .012" toe-in. When you've got that much caster (or more) you don't have to worry about road crown. Our trucks rarely have that much adjustment though. Usually tops out at 3.7 or so.

[j894]

Appearently their alignment rack was way off. They showed me the worked order where they just had it recalibrated. But they have to have it done Again because supposidly one of the pins holding it together was coming out. After fixing it, its messed up again because of the pin (so the story goes). I've agreed to have it done one more time or else they're giving me a refund.

Thanks for the help, I'll post the printout when I have it done again this Tues.

[Sparky2263]

Hmmm, sounds like more bs. Your current sheet indicates a pull to the left which is exactly what you have.

Maybe a new alignment guy is starting work soon?

[j894]

yeah, heh,
But, I did see the work order for whoever worked on the rack, which was 2 days after I had it aligned the 2nd time, (week ago). I don't have the printout from the 2nd time around. I'll be leaving the place Tuesday with it either fixed or a refund.

Although, after I went last & they adjusted it, I Now hear some popping in the front end randomly. Could they have screwed up the tie rod ends or something? How could a ball joint coincidentlly go bad right after they were ****ing around with the front end?

[Sparky2263]

When they adjusted the toe they probably left one of the clamp bolts turned towards the frame and it's now hitting it. Not good.

[j894]

OK, its done & seems better. Even after they adjusted it more & showed the stuff within specs it still coasted left, swapped pass & drivers side tires & now it goes right.

So I had a combination of radial pull & it was slightly out.
Gonna put some more millage on it & see what happens. Im gonna get 2 more new tires soon anyway.

Only thing I'm worried about now its this popping noise. I mentioned the clamp bolts hitting & they said that does happen when stuff is adjusted significantly, but they didn't see anything hitting, or evidence of it. They were suggesting it may be ball joints. Not calling them liars but I have a hard time believing that because, i never ever heard it before until I was backing out of a parking spot on their lot, after they aligned it the 2nd time.

Also, there wasn't much play (top to bottom) in the front end when I was checking only a few weeks ago. & In May when I had it inspected they checked and said there wasn't much either.

I'm gonna check myself, should I check only for rub marks? I cant always seem to replicate the popping, seems like it happens when I'm backing out & turning the wheel to the right? any other clues?, if it is somehow ball joints, that would suck.

[Sparky2263]

I wonder if they screwed up something with the eccentric washers on the upper control arm? Gotta be pretty damn tight to hold.

[j894]

Don't know anything about that. Of what importance are they? or how would they cause it?

[Sparky2263]

They're pretty damn important. They hold the upper control arm in place which is where you set caster and camber. Here's a pic.

Maybe it's time for a real alignment guy to take a look at it.

[j894]

I was looking at them earlier & didnt see anything out of the ordinary (comeparded to the passenger side. Although, not sure what Im looking for as far as them being screwed up.

[j894]

Weird, sometimes it happens when Im just rolling straight back down my driveway. Not even turning.

[j894]

Was just thinking, couldn't a loose caliper bolt cause this?
Or would it not be random if that was the case?

Although I dont know how it could of coincidentally come loose after they worked on it.

[Sparky2263]

Here's my take. It's a front end clunk. It wasn't clunking before the alignment. It's clunking now. Dime to a dollar says they left something loose.