MSD box

[chevyracing55]

I was thinking about an msd box (6a), does anyone use this box on their truck? and what wire kit do i need to install it, 99 s10 4.3l vin w. thanks

[rat]

You only "need" the box. But the harness adapter makes it easy to install.

[chevyracing55]

do u know the adapter part number? thanks

[rat]

8877?
http://www.msdignition.com/install_access_8.htm

[Joker2040]

8877?
http://www.msdignition.com/install_access_8.htm

Yep, that's it. The Jeg's part number is 121-8877. That's what I used on my truck and it saves so much time.

[chevyracing55]

thanks i wasnt shure what wire, i didnt want to order the wrong one.

[00S104.3]

Is that wire adapter really as easy as it looks? No splicing at all? If so, I know what to ask santa for this year.;)

[Shok]

what kind of improvements are you all seeing with the box?

[Dogsofjune]

Very little

[rat]

Very little
^^^I agree.


But the harness adapter does make it very easy. You do have to come up with a power source for the box as well.

[chevyracing55]

what kind of power source? like a battery or a box of some kind?

[rat]

Positive and ground, i don't remember if it even has to be switched, the instructions say.

[Shok]

^^^I agree.


But the harness adapter does make it very easy. You do have to come up with a power source for the box as well.


Yeh thats what I expected, years ago I put one on an 85 stang, basically to get rid of the durapark box and its fried wiring. I didnt notice any difference at all, other than fixing the issues caused by the bad duraspark wiring.
Any S-10 ignition mods that are known to really help? The stock setup seems pretty decent to me for normally aspirated. Sorry if I'm derailing this thread :(

[Dogsofjune]

Actually stock ignition is pretty decent even for boosted setups. I went with MSD's BTM mostly due to the option of retarding timing under boost, which I may need with a future project, if my parts ever get here.
Plus we get some funky gas around here sometimes.

[Sparky2263]

Late model stock ignitions are fine to 6000 rpm's.

[04silveradomykk]

I like my MSD 6a, quicker starts, smoother idle, smoother acceleration... I did notice I can stretch a tank of gas over another 20-25 miles than I couldn't get without it. Install was painless, I even spliced & hard wired mine.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/mykk/msd2.jpg
I realize the engine compartment is different in my fullsize compared to the S-10's... but it did work out pretty good. The leads from the MSD to the coil only have about a foot of wire to travel, as little resistence as possible. I ran the MSD's power all the way up to the battery. I had a problem with a past MSD install, it had a poor ground and the trigger leads and coil leads were ran next to each other parallel and created an inductive loop. I made sure not to make those same mistakes on this truck.

[Joker2040]

Welcome to the site!!!

[04silveradomykk]

Welcome to the site!!!

thank you, I'm finding out alot of great info about the 4.3L's, most of wich applys to my application... some of it won't because of the different bodystyles. But anything I can learn about the LU3 4.3 in my 2004 the better off I am before I modify things.

[k1ller4fun]

With the harness it takes about 10 minutes to install. Just need to plug in the harness, Hook up a ground and get it some power. Its a nice set up. If you get a 6AL it gives you alot of options.

[Mikz86TA]

Diggin oldies up eh?

[jharrison]

MSD is a decent mod, however their coils are crap. The MSD coil for 96-01+ actually puts out 5,000V less than stock. Accel confirmed this, their coil fires with 3,000V over stock, so between the two thats an 8,000 volt difference. Keep in mind that regardless of the box you choose to install the stock coil starts to taper off in voltage above 3,000 rpm.

John (obiwan) hated MSD coils while I defended them until I did some research on my own.

[Mikz86TA]

Harrison. A few questions. 1st : where did you see that coil test? 2nd : I assume the 'taper off volts above 3K' is just stock, or is it all the coils. 3 : I know the earlier GM coil on the 4.3 (the one with 4 wires and 2 siamesed plugs) had a large battery wire and the one on my 2003 has a few thin ones....you think those coils provide more primary volts with the larger ignition wire?? 3 : What is the Caspers TPS-TEC in your sig...I knoww what a TPS is but what does the TEC mean? 4 : Did you hardwire your 6A or use the MSD adapter?...just curious 5 : What model NGKs you run....are they colder than the stock Delco 41-932s? Sorry for the 20 questions...I just like to see opinions and experiences from different sources. Im looking at MSD 6As and Crane HI6 right now.

[04silveradomykk]

I've a MSD 6a & Accell coil.... very happy with the combo.

The GM ignition is tough to improve on, and there isn't much difference with the MSD. But if you must bolt on MSD is cool.

[jharrison]

The coil test was done by various members of this site years back, some on the dyno others verifying be the highly accurate "seat of the pants". If I remember correctly I believe the testing was also done on 350's using the same coil. The taper off in voltage only pertains to the stock coil. And I am only referring to the GM single connector coil. None of the aftermarket coils for whatever reason (possibly due to lower primary resistance) taper off in voltage as rpm's increase. No testing was ever done to improve the supply voltage to the coil, we only worked with what was there, no cutting or splicing.

The Casper TPS-TEC stood for throttle enhancement & correction I believe. I know you can perform this mod for free, but at the time I didn't want to cut on a 80+ dollar part to experiment. Here's the link to Casper. In their install instructions there is a little more info.

https://www.casperselectronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=102017&Category_Code=

I mounted my 6A PN:6200 on the firewall above the distributor, and used the adaptor PN:8877 for quick removal to avoid a warranty issue, or so I thought, long story.

The NGK's I run are the TR55IX's with a .060 gap. I truthfully never played with hotter or colder plugs. Since im normally aspirated and don't plan on playing with nitrous I just wanted a better performing plug that could stand up to the multiple hits of a capacitive discharge ignition.

Personally I would go with the MSD 6A or preferably 6AL incase you miss a shift you have a rev limiter as a safeguard. I have an article that rates MSD as a close 2nd to Accel's new 300+ ignition system, but I can't seem to find it. It also addressed Mallory and a few others.

Q's are cool with me, I have done quite a bit of trial and error, and have no prob sharing the knowledge to save someone from repeating my mistakes.

[jharrison]

I am curious if the Vortec Dyna Mod from Performance Distributors would get rid of the taper. They claim a longer coil saturation time. I haven't played with it, but would like to. Here's the link

http://www.performancedistributors.com/vortec.htm

By the way I found that CD ignition comparison performed by carcraft, once again here's the link, the info is on the 2nd page of the pdf although it's labeled page 3 in the lower right.

http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/Ignition_Systems.pdf

[Mikz86TA]

OIC I remember the TPS part now. Isnt that like the TPS adjustment mod you can do by modding it to rotate to acheive desired WOT volts? I was told that the PCM auto-corrects this, so there is no need. I have a Programmer so I can adjust the stock rev limiter...thats why I assumed everyone got the 6A. No offense to anyone with Accell but Ive had past bad luck with their stuff and dont care for it. Ive dealt with MSD and Mallory and those are what Im comfortable with. Also Crane HI6. I had a buddy with one of the 1st ones and it was very reliable and seemed to work flawlessly. NGKs will go in if I get the box. Ive never had them but always hear good things about them. THX for the part #. Ive too wondered about the Preformance Dist stuff. Ive heard of them from a long time ago seems, but never known anyone to use their stuff. I had posted on an older thread their link. They are the only ones I ever saw with the module for the ignition. Seems unimportant with a MSD to me though. I did put a ground strap on my coil bracket for extra grounding path. Since you have to drill the rivits out of the stocker, I put stainless screws and nuts back in place to re-install it. I added a braided ground strap to the firewall nut where there is another strap. Overkill maybe, but I do sometimes =) THX for the input

[Blazer69]

i just stick with my delco stuff...lol

[jharrison]

Mikz, your right about the TPS mod for the most part. The general accepted theory at the time was that rather that "correcting" for the sensor the pcm would allow a tollerance. And while at idle if you were below that tollerance and you depressed the throttle your vehicle would remain responseless until your TPS voltage came back up to within tollerance. This was associated with the lag experienced when you tromp on it. By adjusting the TPS to what it should be, theoretically as soon as you touch the gas the vehicle would react.

I don't disagree with this, but in my mind I always thought that the Casper mod offered something more. Follow me here, regardless of how accurate your TPS is reading there is always going to be some delay for your PCM to receive, interpret, and react. So IMO since the Casper mod tells your PCM at (I believe 70% and up) that you are at full throttle, while your foot is still coming down your PCM has already received the WOT signal and should respond within the time it takes for the gas pedal to hit the floorboard. Again IMO you would have a slight reaction advantage over someone who has even modified their TPS to read true.

As far as the rev limiting goes wherever you adjust the rpm limit, the stock method of limitation does one of three things, retards timing, pulses the fuel pump, or cuts off fuel, until rpm's return to an accepted range. This is perfectly fine until you run forced induction or nitrous. Then more advanced features like firing every other combustion stroke for a given cylinder as to not load up with fuel is nice to have. (I know about rpm window switches and cutoffs but that a whole other subject) Bottom line is that with stock rev limiting on forced or nitrous setups you will get detonation or blow a _____ (fill in the blank intake manifold, head gasket, or other). Just something to keep in mind when planning out how far you want to go building your hot rod since more often than not "stock is never good enough".

[Mikz86TA]

Well, Im not going ot be getting any power adders right now. I have a 6AL on the TA I could swap with if needed or just upgrade. But Im not at a time where I want to put that nuch $$ in the daily driver =) I feel you on the TPS thing. On my JET programmer I have a Real-Time Data display. The TPS seems to be responsive as to what the PCM 'sees'. I want to go out one day when I have time and do some throttle test and pay close attention. Hard to do 90% of the time driving. I have been noticing the timing. To me its weird on when it adds most advance and doesnt. Just not very logical. I get just under 50* advance sometimes, but thats not always when your 'on it' WOT. Ill get back with some more detail and specifics if your corious. I also want to go throught the 3 availible tunes and keep an eye on what it is doing. Ive read up on Calculated Load Value and I seem to be OK there. TPS is just a throttle opening %. IAT reading is higher than I expected...but its real HOT here at this time. Coolant temp is right on with the gague. Short and LOng fuel trims I need to educate more on. O2 sensors seem within range, but again I need to educate the translations to know what is rich and lean. Its got a few more things too. On a side note, I have a spare TPS and modded it, but never got around to installing it.

[jharrison]

I would definitely appreciate more details and specifics whenever you have time. In no way do I claim to know it all, but I am constantly learning. Trying to figure out what GM did and their intent has really been a challenge especially when your trying to improve upon it. This has always been by far one of the best places to discuss and share info. The guys here have some really sweet ideas and perspectives that really shine light on things I haven't thought of. And if you don't agree with my ideas or opinions, I can take criticism, especially if I learn a thing or two from it. Maybe once again there's something I left out or didn't consider.

[j894]

When I had my truck hooked up to a tech 2, the TPS was 0.0% at idle, moved only when you stepped on it. So I guess you can't adjust its base setting, it seems to reset to 0.0%

[Mikz86TA]

Did you adjust it and it auto reset?

[j894]

I didn't touch mine, its unmodified. I wasn't looking for the TPS readings specifically when I was using it. I had wanted to see what the o2 sensors were reading & how quickly they were responding. The other sensor readouts happen to be on the same screen.

I doubt the TPS were made that well that they read 0.0 at idle out of the box (if they were adjustable), so Im assuming they automatically adjust to 0 at rest.

the PCM still goes into closed loop with a 180* thermostat BTW. ( I noticed this as well when I had it on the scanner)... I've seen a lot of people claim it stays in open loop.

[nomaboy]

as long as it gets above 170 it will go into closed loop.