leaf spring clamp kit

[Lastwagen]

has anyone used that leaf spring clamp kit, that is supposed to help with rear wheel hop? I dont have a 3rd shock bracket and I dont want to get traction bars (dead give-away).

[j894]

I've heard they do cure wheel hop, but using them for that purpose they make break the leaf spring.(anyone confirm this?)

[T Man]

Get slapper bars..giveaway, but most cars they are on nowdays are jokes anyway.

[87wildside]

I've heard they do cure wheel hop, but using them for that purpose they make break the leaf spring.(anyone confirm this?) The only person I knew that used these had them on a Nova that he street raced (sleeper) and he would crack springs often. They served his purpose though, not as easy to notice as traction bars. Made a lot of money with that car, Changed a lot of springs too

[Mikz86TA]

Personally I believe they will help but not as much as a traction bar or slide-a-link. They are a cheap and test it technique thats readily availible at most auto parts chains. I would think that they would break or fracture the leafs in a high torque and thrashing on em daily routine/application. For a daily street vehicle I dont see it being much of an issue. Plus the ZQ8 leafs on my truck are close together due to a low-angle arch that you are only pre-loading them together and not really creating a harsh bend thats not naturally there. Could be a diff. story on the other leafs of a 4x4 or std suspension setup.I've heard they do cure wheel hop, but using them for that purpose they make break the leaf spring.(anyone confirm this?)

[Mikz86TA]

New question/input on a forgotten post. ;) I had picked up a set of leaf clamps from a local auto parts outlet. I was looking under the truck yestarday just lying there visualizing the setup and what happens underload. B4 I get a instructional on how wheelhop occurs, I already understand. :D I have a ZQ8, so the arch of the leaf springs are not bad. I also have the hop-shock FYI. The lower and shorter leaf sits at rest about 3/4 of an inch from the upper leaf which extends all the way to the mount. If I were to clamp it together here, I would effectively pre-load it against the other one and seemingly keep the shuddering motion from occuring. But with that amount of compressing (which seems to be minimal) would that first cause a break to occur, which leaf would be abused here (lower leaf is thicker BTW) and fail, would this help a little alot or eliminate wheel hop? I have noticed I have a little wheelhop but not overly significant and it occurs under certain conditions and not all the time. Looking at it I had another idea. If I were to get a rubber or poly wedge and put it between the opening of the leafs, then use the clamp kit to pre-load that together instead of 'bending' the leafs, would that work to not stress the leafs and also effectively load them together? Just an idea to think on. I was also curious about replacing the hop-shock with a stiffer one or an adjustable shock. Getting the at-rest length and finding a match would be Ok right. Is there any differences in the compression/rebound properties between this and a conventional type shock?

[87wildside]

First the hop shock. I remember a kit that was sold that placed a shock over each leaf pack that ran from the u bolt pad to the front eye of the springs and this kit used standard shocks. Your best bet to get the proper size shock would be to take it off and measure the extended length then compress it and take that measurement. I think a heavy duty shock or an adjustable would be great for this.
Now the clamps. I know in this thread I have said beware, and for good reason. My best friend had them on his Nova ( street racer ) and he would develope cracks over a 3 to 6 month period. He was fine with this because he made money with the car. The reason clamps can and do break springs is the top spring ( with eyes ) in a stock configuration will flex from the spring eye to the mounting area for the axle. When clamps are used the flex area is shortened to Spring eye center to the clamp. This will increase the shear load on the upper spring. This doesn't mean the will break springs on every application, but its something to consider. My best advice is to find another means of controlling traction issues.

[87wildside]

These help, trying to find a pic of them installed
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HEL%2D815&view=32&N=700+4294925130+400349+4294843208

[Mikz86TA]

Ive seen those B4 from Helwig. I am not looking to spend so much right now on the issue. ...since for me its not that bad. I just wanted to toy around with it a little. What do you or anyone think about the wedge pad idea i mentioned? Semmingly it would not put a constant flex there but stiffen up the loading of the leafs. I still have not convinced myself it would be a cure. I almost wish I had more wheelhop than I do for testing purposes. On the other note, would a QA1 adjustable or a adjustable coil-over shock be an idea for the hop-shock replacement. My hop-shock is wet down the side and its out of warranty. I was going to replace it one day, but the dealer only sells the entire kit and not the shock itself.

[87wildside]

No coil over! That could add to the problem, just use a shock. The pads you are talking about would seem to work but the clamps come into play again. This may be a little Getto engineering but you could do the wedge on each end of the second springs and (here it comes) hose clamp it to only that spring. I can't think of any other way to make it work. The leaking shock could just be there for the ride now so you may want to just get a replacement for that.

[Mikz86TA]

(here it comes) hose clamp it to only that spring ----I saw ghetto but didnt see this coming LMAO! But I get what and why. Now its time to jog the ol mind and come up with an idea....other than hose clamp =)

[87wildside]

Mo getto........just spray paint it

[Mikz86TA]

only if its painted performance yellow

[LilYellowZQ8]

I am running the Helwig 550 helper springs on my ZQ8 and they work like a charm. They're 2 fold, increased load capacity, and eliminated wheel hop. I tried the leaf clamps, but it made the truck ride too rough, especially over dips or bumps on the highway.

[87wildside]

only if its painted performance yellow
You could always color match them, that makes it Kustom!

[Mikz86TA]

How comical is that!! LOL!! I always say 'custom with a K' whenever I see a getto install come through our shop. You beat me to it this time hahaha:D . Well since I got the clamp kit and heard a good deal of input, Im going to try them out to see. Some personal R&D you could say. You could always color match them, that makes it Kustom!

[87wildside]

Just keep an eye on the springs, if you fell any binding. I would think if you were to tighten them down just enough to hold the springs and not move is the way to go. On the Nova he tightened the crap out of them. Good luck and keep us posted.

[nomaboy]

i used those clamps before. the best place to clamp them (i found out by trial and error) is just after the spring eye. right where the second spring rests on the main spring(the one with the eye). if you clamp it to the big overload spring on the bottom of the pack, you are going to put a wierd load on the whole spring assembly.
this setup worked well to stop the wheel hop with the stock springs, however when i got my 3" lower springs they didn't work at all.

[Mikz86TA]

I can visualize exactly what you are talking about and it makes sense. But the OE ZQ8 springs on my truck have the two main springs that ara pretty well siamesed to the front eye and then the larger and shorter overload spring beneath it. But the shorter spring is still kinda long. But the space it resides below the others is what I was contemplating using the clamp kit on. But I think I want to devise a wedge spacer to pre-load with out stressing it. Ill look again tomorrow. BTW thanks for the experienced input. Very helpful. Keep on posting results and thoughts guys :D i used those clamps before. the best place to clamp them (i found out by trial and error) is just after the spring eye. right where the second spring rests on the main spring(the one with the eye). if you clamp it to the big overload spring on the bottom of the pack, you are going to put a wierd load on the whole spring assembly.
this setup worked well to stop the wheel hop with the stock springs, however when i got my 3" lower springs they didn't work at all.

[nomaboy]

i see what you are saying. i didn't know the zq8's were different in that way. the good thing is that the clamps can always be relocated if the first shot dosn't work so fine tuning should be easy enough.

[Mikz86TA]

True. I did notice the two siamesed full length leafs have a 3/4 clamp where the lower long one ends. It is not really clamping them together but rather a limiter. But Ive had the bed loaded to the bump stop B4 and Ive never seen it out flex there. HMM weird but I am sure its therre for a reason

[nomaboy]

if you are talking about that little "clip", i believe it is on there to stop the leafs from rubbing on each other and squeaking.

[Mikz86TA]

i think...ill look tomorrow

[badasS10]

Doy you guys think this would be a good idea on y 97 s10 w/ stock suspension? I'm getting a posi unit, and want to ne able to get every bit of traction I can. I just want to know if this is a good way to go for a cheap price, since I'm low on funds for slide a links. Also, where do you mount them to get best results? Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

[nomaboy]

best bet for budget is the 40 dollar traction bars out of jegs.com. then cut some square tubing long enough to bolt to the traction bars and end right under the spring eye. and bolt the snubber to the square tubing.

[badasS10]

so the bars from jegs are too short? How much longer would I need to make the tubing? Thanks for the info, BTW.

[nomaboy]

i think i used about 6" total on each side. that includes a few inches to bolt to the inside of the trac bar. the best way to find out is to mount the trac bars to the springs and see how much length you need to get the rubber snubber under the spring eye.

[Hammer Head]

Lakewood makes traction bars just for the s10.. what's being talked about here is the universal bars. When I got the lakewoods I think I remember paying about $120. Got them from summit but I haven't seen them in a while..

Edit: found 'em http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=LAK%2D21705&N=700+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=LAK%2D21705&N=700+115&autoview=sku)

[Hammer Head]

Oh & don't let the 'will this fit your application' section fool you.. all S trucks suspensions are the same whether or not it's a 1st gen or 2nd gen. They're worth spending the couple bucks extra & getting some that are made to fit IMO.

[badasS10]

Sweet. Thanks for the info. I just rode around with a friend of mine who uses traction bars and clamp springs, and his truck picks up quick! I don't mind spending the $ on these, since I lan on upgrading my entire driveline and trans. Thanks Hammer Head.

[Mikz86TA]

Update from me. I just got around putting on the Leaf Clamps I got from AutoZone a whole back. They are made by Superior and were less than $20.00 for the pair. I have the ZQ8 suspension and it has 2 full length low-arch leafs and a 3rd shorty leaf. I also have the hop-shock. I also added a 1 inch lowering block shortly after I got the truck to level it out. But other than that all suspoension is stock. I placed the clamp kit near the front of the 3rd leaf end. In the one pic, you can see the clamp and on the other side of the truck youll notice how much of a gap there was stock. I pretty much pre-loaded the 3rd leaf up to the others. I didnt overtighten the clamp but snugly...it has lock washers but Im going to periodically check it out. At 1st during a normal drive, it didnt seem irregular. I did notice that when I went over a parking lot speed bump, there was a disinct firmness added to the rear. Not overbearing but noticed. Kinda felt like it does over bumps when I have the Quad loaded up. Under hard acceleration from a stop, it felt slightly more positive but I want to do more on that B4 confirming any differences. When the tires broke loose, there has been wheelhop B4 but it was always dependent on the pavement and such and not always that bad IMO. Ive experienced worse B4. It did seemingly reduce the occurance of wheelhop but didnt eliminate it. However, when powershifting into 2nd and popping it hard, there was more positive traction felt. I have a spot where in the past Ive had wheelhop issues. Must be the pavement there. I am going to maybe try it out there tomorrow since I know by experiences there how it usually reacts. I also have a speed corner that I want to try out to see how the seemingly stiffer rear spring reacts. IMO there should be more understeer. Debatable opinion though. I may also finally put on the 255-50-16s tomorrow and get off these worn out Goodyears. Ive only had the tires lying in storage for like 6 months now. Ill get pics of those new fatties. There should be a traction difference with new rubber on it, plus the added width over the 235-55s stocker size. I did notice a tremedous improvement with the 245-50s when they were out back. Heres a fer installed shots......opinions welcome as always:D http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/S10-LeafClamp1.jpg http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/S10-LeafClamp2.jpg

[JONGO8]

Looks good.
I would double nut the u bolts though. You are not going to titten them up all the way so the lock washers arn't going to work.
You could even put poly lock nuts on too but I like the double nut better because you know they arn't going to come loose.

[87wildside]

Are you still planing a poly shim?

[Mikz86TA]

Good idea Jongo. Like a jam nut. I thought about threadlocker but just wanted to test them out 1st. I still dont know if Ill keep em on. Just kind of a see-the-effects test. If it works out well, Ill keep em on....at least until I get some better devices on it one day. Eric, Im not sure. My concern was that the front (as you can see in the pic on the far one without the clamp) has the space, and by clamping it /pre-loading it, I might stress the leaf. So, I thought the poly wedge up there would reduce the flex, yet keep the leafs loaded against each other. Along with the clamp of course. Ive seen poly wedges B4 that go between the axle and leaf perch, but havent had my hands on any to determine their actual size. If they are a little bigger than the space, that would be fine...I could cut them down. I just want it to look professional and not bobo.

[badasS10]

are those leaves clamped at the front, or the rear of the leaves? I am also wondering if this will benefiet me as well, since I have stock suspension w/ 3 leaves and a 4th helper leaf. Would I just clamp the 3 leaves together in the front( facing the front of the truck) position, and disregard the helper leaf? I also saw earlier in the post that those leaf helper spring from Hellwig would work. I have acces to a set of similar devices that I think may work. Worth a shot?

[badasS10]

Here's a pic of those Helwig springs installed, from jcwhitney.com:

[Mikz86TA]

Its at the front. As I have pictured, there is a pair (2) of leafs that extend the entire length from eyelet to eyelet mounts. Then there is the 3rd leaf, as pictured, that only goes about half the distance from center to front and center to back. The front of that 3rd leaf is spaced out from the others since it is a straight leaf and the other 2 are arched upward. I merely closed the gap. Now, in your picture, youll see the illustration of what occurs 'axle wrap' when acceleration is applied. Pic is exaggerated but to the point. From this view, wheels spin counterclockwise and inertia wraps the axle clockwise. Springs work against it but torque overcomes their resistance to a degree causing a back and forth struggle. This causes loss of traction and the wheelhop. What I was doing, is thinking how that lowest/short leaf (which is thicker than the 2 seperate long ones) rotates upward with the wrap of the axle...and the other 2 leafs...and eventually hits the bottom of them. To me one it makes contact, it loads fully the torque applied. The other 2 leafs are weaker causing flexing until the 3rd stiffer leaf loads against them making it more positive resistance. I thought, If I preload the 3 together, the resistance/stiffness would be instant. Then I could apply more torque B4 axlehop occurred or the tires would break loose. It seems easier to break the tires loose...but they are worn too. After i get the new tires on, the traction from the road and rubber should be better bite. But this might also re-instate the axlehop. Since more pressure could be realized against the 3 springs than they are able to resist.

[Mikz86TA]

The traction spring is like a flexible snubber ,if you will, in the center of the orig leaf set. Should work better. I also want to fart around with the 'hop shock' I have stock on it. I was thinking about an adjustable or air shock to replace it. But heres what Im thinking. If you analize its normal motions, its just like a reg shock. But looking at it, it dampens differently...seemigly. A shock is usually designed to be tighter in resistance on the inward (two ends forced TO each other) stroke (compression) and lightly on the outward stroke (rebound). The hopshock is mounted from frame to axle TOP in the front area. And by analizing the pic again from this side (counterclockwise tire force = clockwise axle force) the top of the axle is pulling the hopshock out. So it seems to me the rebound stroke ( two ends forced FROM each other ) would need the dampening. Which makes it different from a conventional shock. Right? But, shocks have 2 damp rates like 50/50, 60/40 etc. I guess a 50/50 would be ideal since the 1st# is the comp and 2nd is rebound. It wouldnt seemingly make sense to have less dampening on the outward stroke. Plus the 'knob' adjustables are usually compression and some are both. I dont remeber seeing any rebound specific adjustables. Plus...how much research did GM actually put nto this I wonder? Maybe Im over-analyzing it. Id like to fart around with it

[badasS10]

Mikz, could I just clamp the first 3 springs together and just disregard trying to close the gap between them and the 4th helper spring? Would this give me the same effect as how you did your's?

[Mikz86TA]

Do you have a pic of your springs? Is it ZQ8 or other?

[Mikz86TA]

Well, I got the 255/50/16s on the back today. Massive improvement in the cornering, and since they are new the grip is alot better. I did feel that the spring clamp did improve the wheelhop, but didnt cure it. At my 'test' site, It gripped out of 1st and only spun the tires if I dumped it over 2700K. Tires improved that more than the clamps. But clams seemingly did do a 'little' off-line improvement when I tested it the other day. Hitting 2nd, it had about 2 shudders of hop whereas B4 it was 3 on a good day and 4-5 normally. Could be tires, but it kinda felt the same as the other day with just the clamps and old tires. But again this was a differnet road I was testing on the other day. Weather was the same. So my personal conclusion is the clamps are worth less than $20 for some extra help. But they are not the cure. I would also conclude that if you have the base springs (not ZQ8, or HD), then your results arent going to be as impressive and more would need to be done. I figure the higher S-series stance (non HD, ZQ8) would have more flex which is less like ly to provide more weight transfer to the rear grip, and the lack of the ZQ8 hopshock will not absorb the wheephop. IMO, the afformentioned and piced Helwig part would closely cure the ZQ8 wheelhop and probably be close to what Im now experiencing on the std suspension. Best setup is most likely the Cal-Trac, Slide-A-Link or something like those.....for either suspension. I did these as a cost-effective symptom resolver, since alot of us cant afford the Cals or Slides right off. BTW, a better shock will help also.

[woody6725]

The traction spring is like a flexible snubber ,if you will, in the center of the orig leaf set. Should work better. I also want to fart around with the 'hop shock' I have stock on it. I was thinking about an adjustable or air shock to replace it. But heres what Im thinking. If you analize its normal motions, its just like a reg shock. But looking at it, it dampens differently...seemigly. A shock is usually designed to be tighter in resistance on the inward (two ends forced TO each other) stroke (compression) and lightly on the outward stroke (rebound). The hopshock is mounted from frame to axle TOP in the front area. And by analizing the pic again from this side (counterclockwise tire force = clockwise axle force) the top of the axle is pulling the hopshock out. So it seems to me the rebound stroke ( two ends forced FROM each other ) would need the dampening. Which makes it different from a conventional shock. Right? But, shocks have 2 damp rates like 50/50, 60/40 etc. I guess a 50/50 would be ideal since the 1st# is the comp and 2nd is rebound. It wouldnt seemingly make sense to have less dampening on the outward stroke. Plus the 'knob' adjustables are usually compression and some are both. I dont remeber seeing any rebound specific adjustables. Plus...how much research did GM actually put nto this I wonder? Maybe Im over-analyzing it. Id like to fart around with it

maybe i'm having a retarded moment here, but based on this, couldn't you fab up some way to mount the third shock facing backwards (toward the rear of the truck) so the compression stroke of the shock acts against the rotation of the axle? then you could put in an air shock and load up the air pressure to suit your needs.

[Mikz86TA]

Hmm. That is a interesting idea. I will look at the truck later and see what kind of clearances are there for that. The front bracket might not just be able to flip around to the back since the part of the frame it mounts to is angled down. And aft of the axle is straight. Plus the sway bar mounts are back there. But an entire fabbed up bar/bracket might be doable. IMO, 2 hop shocks (one one each side) would have been better and more balanced. But the tank is in the way I believe on the drivers side. Ill check things out

[87wildside]

The hop shock works like a steering damper and creates equal resistance in both directions. 2 mounted backwards would be better but cost makes it pointless. You could get traction bars for less.

[woody6725]

yeah but that doesn't have the unique cool factor. :D

[Mikz86TA]

Rear ward will not work. The stock shocks are rear angled and they are in the way in that direction, as is the sway bar mounts on sway bar equipped trucks. Good thought though. The left side has the gas tank forward. So GM did what they could at a reasonable cost. If I had a welder, I would fab up a set of cal-tracs. FYI , for $10 you can buy the Cal-Trac how-to info on E-Bay. Instread of the 'under the leaf' style of doing the link, I had a different yet similar approach idea.