More Advice needed from the pros! :-)

[chevybrat]

So yup...another topic I know nothing about. Exhaust! I've been talkin around and I guess I want X style pipe on my truck?? For true dual. It's going to be a custom job flowmaster hopefully. I've heard a lot about headers too, which i've been told I should go ahead and do at the same time. I also know nothing about them. And i'd probably only understand if you explained it like you would to a 12 year old... :-(

But anyway. I'm curious as to if you need specific headers with certain exhaust...or...what I need to know. Do shops sell headers or is that something i'd have to buy before going in to get the exhaust job done? Anybody know an average range in pricing for an exhaust job? And how much extra time it would take to do the headers as well? And how long it would take to do the exhaust?

So basically i'm looking at a rough estimate on price <I know they vary, so, estimates are fine> for an exhaust install w/headers

And, How much time a job like that takes <again, I know it varies>

How much headers cost and if there are different ones for different exhaust, etc.

What kind of gains am I looking at? Horse power and mileage wise?

Just anything you think I should know would be great. :-)

[T Man]

Heres whats up

You have 4 o2 sensors, 2 in the headders, one pre cat and one post cat, you dont want to run true duals with an x pipe. Get a decent set of headders, larger collector pipes and y pipe, run them back to your cat, then sigle out (2.5) to a decent muffler, magnaflow. blowmaster, etc. then duals out if thats what you want. If you run a true dual setup like someone has told you with the x pipe you will need to run 2 cats, and im not sure what the o2 would do, but probably throw a code. Do what I said and you will be cherry

[chevybrat]

thx for the input.

[T Man]

you got it

[T Man]

ill check this in the mornign.. ive had a fifth of jack and a 6 pack, so my info may not be the best right now

[jswag5]

true duals would be a pain on that setup, do either a cat-back, or muffler-back dual and things will not only be cheaper, but less complicated. And the explanation on the headers is, stock manifolds all come straight out into the same "pipe" so to speak, and headers have their own individual pipe going to the collector, less fighting for exhaust gasses to do thus causing relief on the motor, and more power, and if you think of the exhaust like blowing through a straw, the bigger the straw, the less strain on ur lungs to exhale, same thing with the exhaust the bigger the pipes the easier for ur engine to exhale, takes stain off the motor freeing up power to be sent to the wheels.

[T Man]

celebrating friday my friend, the b day cele is tonight

[87wildside]

She has air injection so Edels are out.

[chevybrat]

I don't really want to make a decision until I have a better understanding of all this and to me, because I'm new to it, it's complicated. I know nothing about cars/trucks but i'm tryin to learn. I've heard headers have a really good gain of hp and are worth the hassel and cost. Now, a Y pipe, is dual exhaust right, just not true dual? Because I can live with that if the headers make it worth it and it's cheaper and still a great gain for horsepower. Gas mileage wouldn't hurt either ;-) I might not know much but common sense tells me if my engine is breathin better, i'm gonna get better mileage.

Yes I have air injection. Which is so much fun, I just had to buy replacement parts for both the air pump and hose because a stupid code kept reading on the computer saying something about secondary air injection filter....blah blah blah. So bigger the pipe, better the flow...what should I go for..3''? What's stock? And what do you all have to compare to? Thanks for bearing with me once again guys.

[rat]

Heres whats up

You have 4 o2 sensors, 2 in the headders, one pre cat and one post cat, you dont want to run true duals with an x pipe. Get a decent set of headders, larger collector pipes and y pipe, run them back to your cat, then sigle out (2.5) to a decent muffler, magnaflow. blowmaster, etc. then duals out if thats what you want. If you run a true dual setup like someone has told you with the x pipe you will need to run 2 cats, and im not sure what the o2 would do, but probably throw a code. Do what I said and you will be cherry

'98+ had 3, the one before the cat is missing. '96-'97 did have 4 exactly as you have stated. But for duals just put the 3rd o2 after one of the cats.


I wouldn't bother with headers if you aren't installing yourself. I think the cost will be much greater than the benefit. Perhaps just a y-pipe, and about a 2.5" single exhaust should do the trick. I like my magnaflow personally.

I also wouldn't buy jba's new. I got my ceramic coated headers brand new second hand with the ceramic coating for $330. I am pretty sure they are a bunch more than that new. If you want them to last i would get the ceramic coating.

[Mikz86TA]

My 2003 had 2 O2s in each section of the y-pipe coming down from the manifolds and 1 O2 behind the 2nd cat. IMO, I would get the y-pipe and muffler/exhaust first. Headers are expensive and IMO by themselves are gonna give a minimal gain. Since you probably want a nice sound to go along with your investment, the y-pipe and cat-back exhaust will give you the most bang for the buck. I would listen to different muffler setups to get a tone that you like. I have a couple post and links to Streetfire.Net of mine. There are also a few other sound clips there of 4.3s just do a search. Most muffler manufacturers have single in and single out or single in dual out configs. 2.5" single in/out is sufficient for the 4.3 in mostly stck form. A 3.0" exhaust will sound a little more airy...hard to explain that...sorry. Weather you do a single in/out or a dual out is gonna be purely cosmetic. Also if you do a dual setup, it is preferred to have the muffler have 2 outlets as opposed to the shop y-ing off the pipes. The stock catalitic converter(the big one) flows good enough and is a 2.5" in/out. The weak point in flow is the downtubes from the manifolds. My 2wd measured 1 7/8" but I believe the Blazers and 4wds had a larger 2.0" downtubes. If yours has the 2.0" version, the only benefit will be eliminating the pre-cat and having the shop do a cleaner y merge in place of it(see my attachment pic on the other post).

[droopy89]

Sorry for whoring, but has anyone heard about OBX headers on our trucks? My friend says that theyre better than JBA or Gibson

[chevybrat]

hm so sounds like headers now aren't worth it for the price. lol everyone has their opinions, it's hard to decide. I have no experience what so ever, and am going completely on what you guys say. I don't have the money either, so if they really aren't worth it, then i'll forget it. I don't really like the look of two outlets on one side, I like the Y'd off look comin out the back end...if that makes sense. Of course what I want is probably more tricky and complicated...go figure. Hopefully I can get something figured out.

[chevybrat]

anybody have a picture of the underside of a truck so I can get an idea of what the pre cat and cat are? and how they all connect. A Y pipe pic would be great. i'm tryin to learn somethin here, hehe...

[Mikz86TA]

Well, doing the split pipes out the back is regularly done. However some shops have a problem doing it. One setback they see is the spare is full-size and makes the routing of the drivers pipe tight and also there is a black plastic box above the axle on the left side. I think its an emission canister with a vent for fuel fumes. The shops are usually just over pre-cautious. Ive never heard anyone with the split pies having issues. Most shops will put the truck up on the lift and show you your options. With the ZR2 there might be some more obstacles. Most aftermarket 'kits' have an exception for the split pipes with the ZR2s. Check into that. I show a pic over on the other post of my y-pipe. I had a B4 pic but its gone. ttp://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/S10-Y-pipenew.jpg but heres the new one link to photobucket. Video of exhaust without y-pipe http://videos.streetfire.net/video/cc1f81f3-4b05-4cdd-832a-98d2001c5d16.htm and one with the same and added the y-pipe http://videos.streetfire.net/video/27319274-f9f7-44b3-b50f-98d80149ccce.htm.

[chevybrat]

I'm considering getting a locking tailgate and keeping my spare under the tonneau cover. I figured it would get in the way with exhaust. Didn't know about the black plastic box. Now my next two obstacles. 1. save up for the project. 2. find a good shop.

[Hammer Head]

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/?action=view&current=S10-Y-pipenew.jpg Found that this is the correct link to see your Y pipe Mike. Looks good.

[nomaboy]

If you are putting exhaust on for a power gain, then headers, true duals or y-pipe would be best. if you just want dual exhaust for looks/sound then just put a aftermarket muffler on and split the pipes up. it is all in what you are trying to accomplish.. the later would be a lot cheaper though.

[chevybrat]

I'm shooting for all of the above :-P Performance, Sound, Looks. I really really really have my heart set on exhaust that looks like this picture. What I have to do to get it I have no clue, that's what I have you guys for :-D I don't know If I'll have to get a Y-pipe and split it into dual exit or...get true dual...or...??? lol...i'm trying to learn though.

Err..photobucket is being stupid...here we go

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/chevybrat/Extreme20Dual20Exhaust.jpg

[nomaboy]

best to spend the extra money and get what you really want. you will spend more if you have to keep taking it back to the shop to change stuff all the time. i would do headers with 2 cats, x pipe to 2 mufflers of your chose, then duals out the back. thats just me though.

although if you can always take your truck to the exaust shop and show him that picture and he can custom bend and weld you a system that will be just like the one pictured only just for your truck. you just wont get the performance and sound of the above.

[chevybrat]

Hmm...ok. And when I read peoples profiles and it says they have like...flowmaster this and magnaflow that...what's that mean? Like the cat is one and the muffler is another?

What you described, is that true duals? <sorry for being so....uninformed>

[87wildside]

Catalytic converters (cat) contain a honeycomb with a catalyst (platinum) that burns up harmful exhaust gases. It is located as close to the engine as possible, usually right after the y pipe.

A muffler simply controls sound level and is mounted typically directly for/ aft of the rear axle

Flowmaster = Cat back systems, mufflers
Magnaflow = Catlitic converters, cat back systems, mufflers

[chevybrat]

Oh, gotcha. So they likely just have a magnaflow catalytic converter then and flowmaster cat back or muffler or something. Starting to catch on. I thought it was just a preference thing for what people liked and since I have no experience with any of them...yup. So yeah, i've heard flowmaster and magnaflow are the two top brands? I always heard go with flowmaster though.

[Sparky2263]

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/

[T Man]

Ive already explained the cat back v true duals, and no, magnaflow is a muffler just the same as flowmaster

[chevybrat]

I've caught on to magnaflow and flowmaster both being a muffler...I don't know for some reason this exhaust thing is leaving me stumped so. I'm tryin though. It's probably just one of those things i'm going to have to hear/see over and over and over and finally it's just gonna click and i'm going to think i'm completely stupid for not understanding to begin with, lol. Or maybe i'll never understand it...who knows.

[Mikz86TA]

OK.....your engine is basically a big air-pump. The more or more efficeintly you can get it in and out, the better it performs. You did that K&N intake to get better performance by allowing the motor to more effeciently get the air in. But with the stock exhaust, you still have some restrictions. small pipes, catalitic converters and a muffler designed to keep it quiet and plasing to the majority of buyers isnt very efficient. Your truck also has a pre-cat which if you lookunder the truck at the rt side, it is the 1st silver round part in the exhaust about 6-7" long. Next back is the main cat or catalytic converter which is designed for emissions purposes as already mentioned by wildside I think. Older cats were very restrictive and the aftermarket ones work more efficiently. However the one on our trucks is a pretty free-flowing unit. Mine went bad wbich is why I got a Magnaflow one. Dynomax is also a good one, but for the cost of a new cat, it isnt really nessesary until you need one. Then futher back you have the muffler which as already mentioned controls sound. The stock muff isnt very flow-friendly and the case is noticably large. The Magnaflow, Flowmaster and Dynomax as well as others are usually a smaller case and flow alot better. This will give you better performance. Probably you will want to listen to a few 4.3s with different mufflers on them to see which sound pleases you. Flowmaster has many different 'series' mufflers which all have different tones. On their site is a 'series' index and the basic notible differences. If you do get to hear a truck, listen to it at idle and reving. Some Flowmasters and others have a grumbly idle but a raspy rev. While your under the truck, look at the pipes. Particularly the y-pipe. You will notice the smaller 2 pipes from the engine sides are smaller than the single pipe they converge to. This is OK, but they could be a little bigger. Next where they come into one isnt a very efficient converge point. The shop that did my y-pipe removed the smaller pre-cat and made a better converge of the pipesthere. PLus it removed the pre-cat restriction. But do not remove the main cat. If you have emissions, you wont pass and unless you disable or put a simulator in the O2 sensor, the SES light will come on and milage will drop. I also niticed on my stock exhaust that the diameter of the straight pipe between the cats was smaller than between the main cat and muffler. Again, a not so efficient design. Ive read about doing true duals. IMO that would be expensive with the fabrication time and extra cat. Getting around the gas tank would cause more headache than its worth. And most likely the computer might not adapt well without a re-map. I would start with a cat-back of either a bolt-on pre-fab system or finding a muffler sound you like and having a shop put it on. Our trucks have a good deal of room, so a shop putting on a muffler and bending a pipe or 2 at the back is easy. Inquire with them about the y-pipe (2.0 or 2.25 to a 2.5 or 3.0) and removing the pre-cat. Keep the pic link I provided of mine for a reference to show them if they have internet at the shop and want to see an idea. {Thanks HHead for the clarification of my link} You can do it one part at a time or go all out. Headers would still be a performance improvement if you want later on. Any more questions feel free to ask. Good luck!!

[chevybrat]

Thank you very much Mikz for thoroughly explaining that to me. Everyone was telling me little pieces that I needed to know and it was all good information I just needed to hear everything like you just explained. I don't care if I don't get true dual exhaust, I just want the style like in the pic where it comes out on either side at an angle behind the tires. I think it looks good. Sound is definitely a huge reason i'm getting better exhaust as well as more power. It will be awhile before i have the money for this project, I just want a good idea of what i'm doing before I dive in. I heard your truck and it sounds good. I don't know if i'll get to hear any "in person" because i don't know anybody with an aftermarket exhaust system. Yes, I think headers will be a later project. I'm going to stick with just improving my exhaust for the time being. Thanks again Mikz and everyone else, you've been extremely helpful in helping me understand my truck just that much more. :-)

[Hammer Head]

I was under the truck this afternoon gettin a close up at the cats & O2 sensor locations. I also noticed, just like Mike stated, the smaller diameter tubing used between cats. The main cat has a 'step' in it that, when I get around to making headers & a Y pipe, will cut & weld a 2.5" or 3" 3-bolt flange & cut off the smaller tube & pre-cat to connect to the custom Y, that I think I'll make 2.5".. anyways. It also seems to me that depending on where the collector is on a set of long tube headers there's really no need for O2 extensions.