Installing Promagnum 1.6 roller rockers

[overS10ded]

I've got a set of Comp Promag 1318-12's 1.6 roller rockers that I have had for years to install on my 96 4.3. Does ARP have the conversion studs and do I need a spacer(no where to get them?) or will Edelbrock covers clear, or what?

[wonfast4.3]

I don't think the valve covers will clear. I would like to put some on mine, but I can't find tall valve covers.

[Mikz86TA]

What year?
The 98-ups usually require the older Steel stockwe ValveCovers.
Info Here ---> http://members.shaw.ca/betterthanyoutoo/how-to/vortec/rollerrocker.htm

[FrostEOne]

I just did mine, (01 4.3L) all you need is .600" long rocker nuts instead of the 1" that come with the rockers. These will enable you to use the stiock valve covers.

[Mikz86TA]

Any pics and part #s?

[Hammer Head]

I be interested, also.

[rat]

For '96-'99 use 60* v6 studs with 10mm bottoms, and 3/8" tops. A washer may need to be used.

I just run the steel covers to clear the nuts.

[Hammer Head]

At the risk of sounding like a newbie.. don't '00-up 4.3s have a rail the rockers sit on? I can't seem to find any pictures of '00-up heads..

[rat]

At the risk of sounding like a newbie.. don't '00-up 4.3s have a rail the rockers sit on? I can't seem to find any pictures of '00-up heads..

Yep, don't even have studs. Arp makes bolt in studs just for the application.

Pics:
http://rides.webshots.com/album/466765008qMgZLp

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/24584/1466784245076568790S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1466784245076568790cAOFvt)
http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/20729/1466788579076568790S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1466788579076568790goGCbB)

[overS10ded]

The 60* V6 studs aren't too short? I've heard this only. And where might you need the washer? I have also read that there is a shorter locking nut than the one with the Promags, maybe crane? With a shorter locking nut they fit under the plastic valvecovers? I do have a set of older steel center bolt covers...do these have more clearance? I need to soak them, they are 2" thick all over!

[rat]

They are too long on the bottom, need more on top, put the washer under them to fix this.

I am sure you could find some shorter locking nuts on summit. I bet all the major cam makers have them.

[overS10ded]

Great! You run the older steel valve covers? Is there a baffle inside them that needs to be removed? Also, have you had any loosening problem with your studs running the washers under them? What size washer did you use (thickness)?

[Hammer Head]

Thanks Rat

[rat]

Great! You run the older steel valve covers? Is there a baffle inside them that needs to be removed? Also, have you had any loosening problem with your studs running the washers under them? What size washer did you use (thickness)?

I cut/bent the dividers out.

I don't have to run washers as my heads are different, and have proper sized studs for my heads.

[overS10ded]

I just can't get used to the idea of a washer between the head and the stud seat. I need another solution without pulling the heads. Thanks anyway Rat!

[Hammer Head]

You wouldn't need to pull the head off.. what Rat's sayin is put the washer between where the rocker stud sits on the head. Using the washer as a spacer. If you're worried about strength then use a grade 8 washer.. it's still gonna be stronger than the cast iron the head is made out of anyway.

[Mikz86TA]

Jason, ACS on Ebay has or had a pair of stock 4.3 rocker rails up for sale. No 1.6s or 1.5s included tho. So if you want to see them seperate to get an idea, that might be a good pic.
Rat, The rails.....they bolt to the head in between the rockers or under the rockers? These are 00-up based questions...I have a 2003. So the stock heads are already tapped for standard studs and rockers to be installed like any normal SBC, its just GM decided to incorperate a rail? Seems silly really. From what I read, you just need Self-Aligning rockers and the studs from ARP? Pushrods?

[rat]

Jason, ACS on Ebay has or had a pair of stock 4.3 rocker rails up for sale. No 1.6s or 1.5s included tho. So if you want to see them seperate to get an idea, that might be a good pic.
Rat, The rails.....they bolt to the head in between the rockers or under the rockers? These are 00-up based questions...I have a 2003. So the stock heads are already tapped for standard studs and rockers to be installed like any normal SBC, its just GM decided to incorperate a rail? Seems silly really. From what I read, you just need Self-Aligning rockers and the studs from ARP? Pushrods?

The rails just sit under the rockers. The bolts that hold the rockers down also hold the rails in place. The reason for the rails is to align the rockers, and to act as a stop, the stockers aren't adjustable. The stock rockers don't have the nubs to keep them aligned like a normal rocker.

No need to change the pushrods when going to aftermarket rockers.

Since the rockers bolt down using bolts there are obvously threads. 8mm to be exact. If you look at the arp catalog they have studs for the vortec heads with 8mm bottoms, and 3/8" tops.

And if you are worried about the stud backing out use a little locktite, or hammer the threads a little to act as a lock when it goes in. I didn't do either, and i think i torqued them to around 35ft/lbs. I don't have a washer under mine, but still, i don't see a washer deforming much especialy if you use a grade 8 one.

[Hammer Head]

So, can these (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320169381573&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us) be used?

[rat]

So, can these (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320169381573&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us) be used?

Yes.

Edit: Those will also fit under stock valve covers.

[Hammer Head]

I assume it requires 8mm-3/8" conversion studs to fit ('00-up heads)?

[rat]

Yep.

[Hammer Head]

Anything else special required?

[Mikz86TA]

So, just buy the rockers, the ARP studs and remove the stock rockers and rails? Then install them just like a regular SBC? I heard the stock setup didnt need adjusting....just bolt and go. Is that the reason for the rails? Whats your preferred method of adjustment?

[Hammer Head]

the '00-up had the trunion rollers & didn't need to have the 1/2 ball in the bottom..

[overS10ded]

You wouldn't need to pull the head off.. what Rat's sayin is put the washer between where the rocker stud sits on the head. Using the washer as a spacer. If you're worried about strength then use a grade 8 washer.. it's still gonna be stronger than the cast iron the head is made out of anyway.



The problem here is that the stud isn't seated against the head. Using a washer here is asking for loosening studs.

[Hammer Head]

Gotta picture?

[TreasonAgainstCaesar]

I thought I heard doing a mod such as this isn't a good idea with a supercharger. Is that correct, or am I imagining things again?

[overS10ded]

The 1.6 ratio would allow the valve to open further. This is good for a SC and for any engine IMO. The biggest benefits of 1.6 rockers is found with a stock cam. But with the way this is looking, swapping the cam might be easier and less expensive. I already have the 250$ Promagnum full roller rockers for this engine as per Comp Cams #1318-12. Bill Mach used to have a stud conversion "kit" he produced for this application,96-99 I bellieve. For sure the 96-98! With valve cover spacers included for 500$. He had the stud machined that was correct lengths were applicable.

[overS10ded]

I've decided to save my time and money and buy the new castings (02 and later) which will flow better anyway. But here is a link with great info on the roller rocker issue!


http://members.shaw.ca/betterthanyo...ollerrocker.htm (http://members.shaw.ca/betterthanyoutoo/how-to/vortec/rollerrocker.htm)

[firefighter]

If you have '96+ heads they will all flow the same and they allready make a stud that will work for the pre '00 heads to mount the rockers the only problem is the valve covers I've been told that they can be "clearanced" to clear but IDK for sure.

[Hammer Head]

I've decided to save my time and money and buy the new castings (02 and later) which will flow better anyway. But here is a link with great info on the roller rocker issue!


http://members.shaw.ca/betterthanyo...ollerrocker.htm (http://members.shaw.ca/betterthanyoutoo/how-to/vortec/rollerrocker.htm)


Mike already posted that same link in post #3.. good stuff.

[Mikz86TA]

I wish I could use the stock covers. Ive seen someone have custom made spacers B4. But thats a leak waiting to happen..often. Steels are a dime a dozen and I guess OK. Hell, they arent seen anyway. Maybe Ill paint them blue like the outside or silver like the old TPI.

[overS10ded]

Mike already posted that same link in post #3.. good stuff.


I gotta get some sleep.....I saved it from his post....then posted it again. I knew I saw that somewhere before.

[04silveradomykk]

Also keep in mine the roller rockers will create noise picked up by the knock sensor and will retard timing. The fix used to be to pick up a LT4 knock module\sensor as they had roller 1.6 ratio rockers in LT4 corvettes, but that was a v8 fix I don´t know about the 4.3

[TreasonAgainstCaesar]

SLP used 1.7 ratio rocker arms in their '03 Blazer. How did they get away with it? Could that be taken care of in the custom tune?

[Mikz86TA]

????? The SLP kit was 1.6s # 50882 00-03 and # 50833 98-99.

[Mikz86TA]

Where would the noise come from? Pushrods on the heads, rocker to stud contact, ??? Also keep in mine the roller rockers will create noise picked up by the knock sensor and will retard timing. The fix used to be to pick up a LT4 knock module\sensor as they had roller 1.6 ratio rockers in LT4 corvettes, but that was a v8 fix I don´t know about the 4.3

[TreasonAgainstCaesar]

????? The SLP kit was 1.6s # 50882 00-03 and # 50833 98-99.

Yeah, I remember that. But at least one article I read said they used 1.7s. http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Aftermarket_and_Add-Ons/Preview_2003_SLP_Lineup.S279.A5042.html

Look under the "Truck Adventure" heading. Is this misinformation?

[firefighter]

Whatever it had wer mostlikely similar to the factory rockers maybe even ones from their LS1 kits as I believe they are similar and "maybe" interchangeble. Naturally this is all pure speculation on my part. No reasearch behind it.

[overS10ded]

If you have '96+ heads they will all flow the same and they allready make a stud that will work for the pre '00 heads to mount the rockers the only problem is the valve covers I've been told that they can be "clearanced" to clear but IDK for sure.


Who makes the stud? Thanks for your help!

[biglouie_underpressure]

some vlave cover spacers on e-bayhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CUSTOM-V6-VALVE-COVER-SPACERS-4-3-96_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQihZ020QQitemZ3 00163109149QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[firefighter]

Who makes the stud? Thanks for your help!


ARP of course.....lol is there anybody else? ;)

[overS10ded]

ARP of course.....lol is there anybody else? ;)


ARP does not make a rocker stud for the '96-99 V6 90* engine! They do make a 10mm x 3/8 stud for the pre '96 4.3 but it is too short for this application. What has been indicated earlier in this thread by RAT is to use a washer between the stud seat and the rocker stud boss (use heat treated washers if you do this) while using this ARP rocker stud whose application is for the earlier heads (pre '96). There are no direct conversion rocker arm studs available for the '96-99 engines.

[firefighter]

I went to their site I believe they now do. The info in the link provided is a few years old. I never called them because I'm not ready to do the job yet. I'll see if I can link to the pn.

[firefighter]

They have a part listed specifically for the 4.3L pn 100-7201 it's different than the number listed on the rocker page.


http://www.arp-bolts.com/Catalog/Catalog.html

[rat]

They have a part listed specifically for the 4.3L pn 100-7201 it's different than the number listed on the rocker page.


http://www.arp-bolts.com/Catalog/Catalog.html
nvm

[overS10ded]

I was told this week by a rep and he assured me that ARP has no conversion studs for the '96-99 Vortec 90* V6. His suggestion was to drill out the stud to 7/16...yada yada....

[firefighter]

That isn't too bad an idea you will get less valve train flex witht the thicker studs. But idk I really haven't looked into it more that just glancing at the subject.

[overS10ded]

My whole thing is to do it easy, and I know you can drill and tap the stud bosses on the car but it is so much easier on a bench. If I pull the heads I'll want a cam, and the cycle begins. I just want a simple bolt on solution and at this point Rat's solution to use the washers (again-HEAT TREATED) will work until a better time (more money) comes around. I already have the rockers and I want to use them. Thanks for your help.

[firefighter]

Gotcha I feel ya on the whole cycle thing. I've had many a $50 project cost me $500 because of that. lol

[overS10ded]

Hey, did you get your stealth ram and what blower are you running? Off the subject but I'm curious.
And as an added note to the rocker arm upgrade, I'd also install the LS6 beehives and CompCam retainers as the link earlier pointed out for use with a stock cam. Plus hardend pushrods of the right length, ca-ching$$$!

[firefighter]

I'm not doing a HSR the guy (boosted) who is cutting my manifold (Magna) is also doing the HSR's he just posted pics of the welded manifold I'll update everything in the morning. I'm still pretty much on track for having it running by Dec/Jan.

[Hammer Head]

I have some 3/8-7/16 studs in my parts..

[04silveradomykk]

How about ARP's 134-7201? they are advertised 1.75" effective stud length ( I'm not sure if that is total or just the 3/8" & base side) Will those work on 99+ vortec heads, self aligning 1.6 rockers & stock pushrods?

also, will it require driling out the additional clearance on the pushrod holes thru the heads?

[overS10ded]

The 134-7201's are designed for the pre '96 vortec engine. On some engines you have to elongate the pushrod slot. Not all, but if you have the heads off, might as well. I wouldn't use stock pushrods, I'd go for some hardened ones, and check for proper length.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0401_setting_pushrod_length/index.html

Thanks again to RAT for the link above!

[rat]

The 134-7201's are designed for the pre '96 vortec engine. On some engines you have to elongate the pushrod slot. Not all, but if you have the heads off, might as well. I wouldn't use stock pushrods, I'd go for some hardened ones, and check for proper length.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0401_setting_pushrod_length/index.html

Thanks again to RAT for the link above!

No, they are for '00+ heads.

The other ones mentioned, the 100-7201's look like they have the same dimentions the 60* v6 studs i was refering to.

[firefighter]

Then I dunno I'll have to figure it out when the time comes.

[overS10ded]

No, they are for '00+ heads.

The other ones mentioned, the 100-7201's look like they have the same dimentions the 60* v6 studs i was refering to.


Thanks for the clarification!!

[12sws27]

hey if a person was lookin to add 1.6 rockers on a 00 up 4.3L but was all so thinkin about l8tr on addin a cam will this work? or should this be a question 4 compcams or whatever company the cams bought from? i guess the size of cam would have to be takin in to concideration but, idk. and what about desidin to add a wyjammer l8tr? im curious so i thought id pick at u guys brains.

[firefighter]

Most cams (GM) are set to run on 1.6 rockers. Sometimes you'll run into clearence issues with 1.7's.

[Hammer Head]

Are you sure? Because almost all stock sbcs have 1.5:1 rockers.. & that's why there was a tool made up to help w/ elongating the slots w/ 1.6:1 rockers. 1.7:1s are usually found on bbcs & the lsx group.

[rat]

hey if a person was lookin to add 1.6 rockers on a 00 up 4.3L but was all so thinkin about l8tr on addin a cam will this work? or should this be a question 4 compcams or whatever company the cams bought from? i guess the size of cam would have to be takin in to concideration but, idk. and what about desidin to add a wyjammer l8tr? im curious so i thought id pick at u guys brains.

More than .480" of lift and you will need to cut the guides lower for seal to retainer clearence.

You can run 1.6 rockers, and a cam. But just be aware that you will have even more lift with those rockers. The lift listed is for 1.5 rockers, you would have more with 1.6 rockers.

You also start to actualy lose flow above about .5" of lift on your heads. But my thinking is that you spend such little time at max lift your average lift would be greater.

You may run out of fuel with the blower on there, the wynjammer tuner may not cut it.

[firefighter]

Are you sure? Because almost all stock sbcs have 1.5:1 rockers.. & that's why there was a tool made up to help w/ elongating the slots w/ 1.6:1 rockers. 1.7:1s are usually found on bbcs & the lsx group.

I should have been clearer on that and said "most AFTERMARKET GM cams" I thought about that after I hit post but I've been busy today so I never fixed it. And yes most factory rockers are 1.5.

[rat]

I should have been clearer on that and said "most AFTERMARKET GM cams" I thought about that after I hit post but I've been busy today so I never fixed it. And yes most factory rockers are 1.5.

No, cams(including aftermarket) for 4.3's are based on 1.5 rockers.

Unless the vehicle cam stock with higher ratio's this will be true(lsx engines for example).

Crane uses 1.5's: http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=6&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=2000&Engine_Size=4.3%20L&partNumber=1439731&partType=camshaft

And so does comp: http://www.compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/118-121.pdf

[firefighter]

Well I'll say this you may be right buuut I've done a few cams lately (SBC) and Comp said the same on all of them 1.6. BTW I allways use Comp so I cant comment on other mfg. The cam swaps I did in HS were all hyd flat tappet and they were at 1.5 but I ran 1.6's on them. The recent jobs were Hyd Roller. The LSx's are usually 1.7.

[04silveradomykk]

hey, how about using pushrod guide plates instead of self aligning rockers? would that open up a few more options for 00+ vortec 4.3L 1.6 ratio rock arms?!

I use these 1.6 ratio rockers on my 350... and I wonder if the guide plates would allow the rockers to be used in vortec 4.3L

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/mykk/rockarms.jpg

[rat]

V8 guide plates don't work properly on the 4.3's. Just get self aligning rockers.

[firefighter]

I was wondering about that when the hardened washers came up. But IDK if the narrow body rockers come in non-self aligning and or if you can run guide plates with self aligning rockers.

[04silveradomykk]

is the intake valve and exhaust valve of one cylinder the same distance away from each other as the V8s?

[firefighter]

Should be.

[rat]

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0208_chevy_43l_262ci_v6_engine_build/dyno_results.html

They and several others have said that the v8 guide plates don't work properly on the v6's.

[shipper]

Good luck finding tall center-bolt covers. I've searched the letters off my keyboard to no avail. What year steel covers actually work? Are they center bolt or do I need adapters?

[rat]

Good luck finding tall center-bolt covers. I've searched the letters off my keyboard to no avail. What year steel covers actually work? Are they center bolt or do I need adapters?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CENTER-BOLT-4-3-CHROME-STOCK-VALVE-COVERS-2-3-8-HEIGHT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34202QQihZ014QQi temZ330196238883QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CENTER-BOLT-4-3-CHROME-STOCK-VALVE-COVERS-2-3-8-HEIGHT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118QQcat egoryZ34202QQihZ014QQitemZ330093571641QQrdZ1QQsspa genameZWD1V
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-93-CHEVY-V6-4-3-L-CENTER-BOLT-VALVE-COVERS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118QQcat egoryZ33627QQihZ012QQitemZ220141769771QQrdZ1QQsspa genameZWD1V


Summit has them as well.

And there are a ton at my local junk yard...

[wonfast4.3]

This company makes a tall version. kinda pricey.
http://www.aussiespeed.com/details/?page_id=61